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基督教徒與癌症

各位有沒有發覺各區基督教會都有好多教徒生癌?
小弟有一個研究中醫既朋友
以前是熱心既基教徒
後來發現呢個現象
番去開始研究醫書,搵到原因後
即刻轉軑離教,根住佢話比我聽個理論
我覺得都幾合理,有機會同大家分享!

回復 53# weakest 的帖子

No need to teach la.  You are also teach me in economic.

I certainly believe correlation is neccessary for causation.  If you have an example that something is not correlated in any way, yet we are know they have causation, I will be glad to know and change.

To dye

謝賜教.

Then, can i say correlation (+ve or -ve) is the necessary condition for causation?

[ 本帖最後由 weakest 於 2008-8-19 02:27 編輯 ]
Known cancer causing reason include:
Age  (It is just evolution within the body)
Diet (Eating smoked bacon resembling a charcoal every meal is just asking for it.)
Smoking (same as above)
Genetics (It is just evolution within the body)
Living under ultraviolet light (speed up the evolution!)
Medical history (Yes, virus play a role.)
Lifestyle (A person body has a natural defence against cancer, a couch potato is again, asking for it)

etc... and the list goes on and on.

回復 50# weakest 的帖子

Consider, if CS Lewis is right about Christianity serve like a hospital.

It will follow that those that join the religion will be 'healed' just like patients in hospital.

If we do not observe a correlation, we sort of know CS Lewis is incorrect.  For everything being equal, a causation should make two factor vary togather (inversely, or proportionally)

---------------------
I would suppose conclusive means that we have
1) Large enough random sample (minimal)
2) Have adjusted for all known factors (minimal)
3) Have tested for quite a number of known factors (preferable)
4) Make accurate prediction in the end (preferable)

and probably have others to be added depending on what is being concluded

回復 46# dye 的帖子

"Correlation does not = causation"
---> I get this concept. However, what method is used to check that A cause B?? In your example:

"To see wether he is right, we will need to see the change, if any, when people enter and leave the religion.  A special phenomenon of hosptital is that people tend to leave the hospital as a healthier person.  This is not applicable to religion as they claim that only those who are sick will leave.  

The other phenomenon is that people who is entering the hospital tends to get heathier. Now THIS, is observable."


This is observable, but could it be interpreted as correlation also?


And back to the beginning question: "conclusive" means a certain hypothesis have a large enough sample that supports it?

生化危機T病毒

.未來在我們手中.你可以戰勝未來.

回復 47# Jennifer 的帖子

某程度上,政府機關跟教會兩者根本就是一樣吧(苦笑)
辦公室呢,不面氣帶青黑的人倒是比教會要多的(笑)

回復 45# 阿修羅 的帖子

你去一般香港的辦公室/ 政府機關看看,那裡面氣帶青黑,說話語氣較呆板的人多的是,
他們不返教會可能肝風比返教會的人更大哦~~

回復 37# weakest 的帖子

1)  Correlation does not = causation

It can also be factor C such as people who have cancer tend to change their believe in Christianity because it help!

Just because there are more patient in hospital, does the hospital is the source of sickness.

Above is a valid line of reasoning provided by CS Lewis.

To see wether he is right, we will need to see the change, if any, when people enter and leave the religion.  A special phenomenon of hosptital is that people tend to leave the hospital as a healthier person.  This is not applicable to religion as they claim that only those who are sick will leave.  

The other phenomenon is that people who is entering the hospital tends to get heathier. Now THIS, is observable.

---------------------------
2)  Factors, factors.  We do not need to find identical individual, but we will need to take factors away one at a time.  Such as smoking, age, sex, habit, diet, etc

We will need quite large a samples set to reach anything conclusive.

----------------
3) To dissect even further to see which ritual of religion causes cancer, we will need even further study in great detail.  It can be that seeing the cross causes cancer beause cross is made of cancer cauing material

Or perhaps being happy is the reason, and religion make people happy (again, a different type of reason C)

Maybe the baptism water is contaminated with radioactive material.
------------------------------------

For smoking causes cancer, it is quite conclusive as there is massive amount of data on the second point in the same direction.  If it is only a few anedote evidence, it cannot be very conclusive.

But how sure are we?  No quite.  Since you are studying econ, you already know, what is a cost analysis without benefit?  What is the benefit of smoking to balance out the risk? For the God damn Christian, the benefit is eternal life...
小弟朋友話響基督教會見好多人都有肝風過盛既現像!
面氣帶青黑,說話語氣較呆板等等,都係肝風過盛既表現!
原帖由 抽刀斷水 於 2008-8-13 09:58 發表

煙草商絕不能讓醫學界「證實」吸煙是絕對致癌,否則煙草將成為毒品。


as far as i am concerned , 煙草 = 毒品 , sorry i am a vegetarian
exChristian.info前基督徒,主力:淚儿/泪儿,WEIYAN,龙井树。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。警告 基督徒:你们一定不够他们玩
realChristianities.com雪龙坛
原帖由 Jennifer 於 2008-8-13 02:02 發表
係...唔信你問煙草商...佢地好似有出錢做research 證明吸煙唔一定會引致癌症
煙盒上都係話 respiratory diseases,唔係 lung cancer...

煙草商絕不能讓醫學界「證實」吸煙是絕對致癌,否則煙草將成為毒品。
支持鼓勵每位離教者 › 閹割神父 刻不容緩 ‹
原帖由 口琴王 於 2008-8-11 22:01 發表


谁哦?

這邊就有個明顯的例子。


這邊 , [[[[[-would-b-]]]] = 這邊 [/-'-相] = himself

傻貓貓 .,;==^)



[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-8-13 14:56 編輯 ]
exChristian.info前基督徒,主力:淚儿/泪儿,WEIYAN,龙井树。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。警告 基督徒:你们一定不够他们玩
realChristianities.com雪龙坛

回復 39# weakest 的帖子

係...唔信你問煙草商...佢地好似有出錢做research 證明吸煙唔一定會引致癌症
煙盒上都係話 respiratory diseases,唔係 lung cancer...

[ 本帖最後由 Jennifer 於 2008-8-13 02:03 編輯 ]
原帖由 口琴王 於 2008-8-11 22:01 發表


谁哦?


這邊哦,這邊。
原帖由 Jennifer 於 2008-8-13 00:26 發表
大概係咁,你要有兩個人背景、年齡、性別、生活習慣一樣,但係一個返教會,一個唔返,
黎比較佢地邊個容易患癌,結論才會比較 conclusive。其實現今的癌症研究,根本好難鎖定
一個成因,好似吸煙可能引致癌症,但有些人不吸煙,生活習 ...


那些"吸煙引致癌症"的警告乃inconclusive?

回復 37# weakest 的帖子

大概係咁,你要有兩個人背景、年齡、性別、生活習慣一樣,但係一個返教會,一個唔返,
黎比較佢地邊個容易患癌,結論才會比較 conclusive。其實現今的癌症研究,根本好難鎖定
一個成因,好似吸煙可能引致癌症,但有些人不吸煙,生活習慣正常也會有癌症,則可能是
遺傳基因影響...

就算兩個一模一樣的人,一個返教會,一個唔返,都仲要睇下返嗰個返乜宗派,因為不同
宗派對崇拜,靈修,教友操守等等要求亦未必跟同一套標準,有d 「壓力冇咁大」嘅教會
對教友的肝風可能冇咁大影響都唔定。

回復 34# dye and 27# Jennifer 的帖子

Sorry, don't really get the meaning of "inconclusive"...Do you mean that no result could be reached because there are many reasons could cause "肝風", as such, even if "肝風" cause cancer, we can't conclude that believing Christianity is the cause of having cancer?
原帖由 Nomad 於 2008-8-4 23:19 發表
如果真的有此問題的話,我倒會想是倒過來的問題吧。
畢竟,基督教是一個依靠各種紛爭手段延續的政治系統
所以與之有一定關係 - 無論是教徒與否 - 的人,都有一定情度上的憎恨心態。
久而久之,自然多患。
而且,一些有教 ...


谁哦?
我不敢轻于汝等,汝等皆当作佛!

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