為何基督教兩千年來至今仍屹立不倒?
反基督教/徒的事件與思想從耶穌時代已經存在, 聖經中記載不少.儘管反基聲音越來越多, 也十分多元化, 但基督教至今立教兩千年, 信徒達世界人口3分1, 當中不乏文人學者科學家等.
究竟是甚麼原因使基督教在斥責聲及多項"論據"中仍能屹立不倒?
請發表高見.
注: 既影響3分1人口, 應該不能用"洗腦"/"d人愚蠢"/"政教合一"之論說解釋得通. 希望各位的意見盡量是客觀的意見(雖然這句說話是有點矛盾.....哈哈. 不過你地明o既:) ). But how to define "反基督教/徒"? In bible, those against Jesus include those believe in the God in 舊經 in bible...
Although there are many smart people in the world, there are also many not so superior in critical thinking. Also, even if a person is smart in general, he/she maybe not so perfect in some other aspects. Some ideas regarded as foolish (e.g. the world is flat) could also "屹立不倒" for many years, before they are refuted.
Also, fear of punishment after death, and the reward after-life could be an incentive for people to belief.
By the way, religious choice is somehow a personal matter. Why there are no people conduct an survey about the reason for believing in different religion?
By the way, here's an other question: Why anti-Christianity is still 屹立不倒?
回復 2# 的帖子
"how to define "反基督教/徒"? "並不影響本題的討論--為何仍然有人信基督教.I just used this to describe the background, and as an introduction.
you can refer them as people or theory or "evidence" opposing the idea of a Christian God.
So, you suggested:
1. people are foolish in this area. (despite how you phrased your sentence....)
2. fear of punishment after death, and the reward after-life
Ideas such as "the world is flat" is regarded as foolish today because you now know that the world is round. But to the people living in the time when scientists hadn't discovered this fact, this idea was not a foolish one. I'd say, only those stubborn folks who refused to accept the likelihood of another shape of the world, were foolish.
This also applies to people believing God today. As no one knows the truth(like in the past people had no idea about the true shape of the world), I think no one can say they are foolish simply because they choose to believe.
btw, I am looking forward to the "evidence" proving the exisitence or non-existence of God, if there is any.
回復 1# 的帖子
「為何基督教兩千年來至今仍屹立不倒?」呀弱雞兄您唔駛咁心急答佢 -- 佢太心急啦，問得太早。
我地唔係先知嘛，點知幾時先係「兩千年來」呢？
呢個問題要再等一等，等佢真係夠兩千年先可以答職業賭徒小妹。
移鼠大聖升仙之後第一次出現「教會」此詞係亞拿尼亞同佢老婆突然暴斃之後，請職業賭徒小妹提供此事發生之確切日期，以便計算。又或者我地可以寬大一點處理，由移鼠大聖升仙之日作為基督教成立日期，而如果又再寬大啲 -- 以掛臘鴨之日計........
請提供以上所有日期，以便我方開內部會議決定計到邊一日係夠「基督教兩千年來」。您可以慢慢都唔遲，唔駛急 -- 就算由佢投胎之日起計，用7B.C.作為出生日，都尚有至少15年才可以開始討論此題 XDDD LOL
先不談樓主所講的"基督教"是否真的存在了兩千年
反基的聲音自有基督教以來就存在
而且反基在基督教"信徒達世界人口3分1"的情況下依然越來越多
老實說沒有基督徒就沒有反基, 這方面實在要感謝基督教
簡單回答一下主題
樓主敢說基督教信徒達世界人口3分1
我就敢說這世上愚蠢的人不只佔世界人口的3分1!
只因人的奴性以及依賴性萬年不變
可嘆基督教千年未倒, 我輩應視之為恥!!! 沙文兄: 小妹連"焗賭"一詞都唔知點解, 可想而知我並非職業賭徒啦~ 最多打下衛生麻雀.
那個比喻, 都不是小妹原創的, 引用架咋....
So now,
1. people are foolish in this area.
2. fear of punishment after death, and the reward after-life
3. 人的奴性以及依賴性萬年不變
Thanks aquaticlunar! 好啦...等我補充一下: 或者不應用"為何基督教兩千年來至今仍屹立不倒?"為題.
改為"為何「信耶穌現象」兩千年來至今仍然存在?
好未?
回復 4# 的帖子
[quote]原帖由 [i]沙文[/i] 於 2008-2-17 21:24 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13933&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]呀弱雞兄您唔駛咁心急答佢 -- 佢太心急啦，問得太早。
[/quote]
點得ka? 對女仔要好D ah ma...仲有, 唔駛叫"兄"la. 我年年18歲ka..
回復 3# 的帖子
[quote]原帖由 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13933&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
1. people are foolish in this area. (despite how you phrased your sentence....)
[/quote]
Exactly what I want to say. The lengthy words is not simply phrasing the same statement. They do have different literal meanings.
[quote]原帖由 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13933&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Ideas such as "the world is flat" is regarded as foolish today because you now know that the world is round. But to the people living in the time when scientists hadn't discovered this fact, this idea was not a foolish one. I'd say, only those stubborn folks who refused to accept the likelihood of another shape of the world, were foolish.
This also applies to people believing God today. As no one knows the truth(like in the past people had no idea about the true shape of the world), I think no one can say they are foolish simply because they choose to believe.
[/quote]
Well......Believing that the world is flat shows that the people are foolish in this sense. The people maybe very smart in many other aspects, but in this, they are foolish in the sense that they choose a wrong believe, by accepting wrong "evidences".
By the way, I believe (without any ground) that God (singular, or plural) exist, but it must not be the Christian God. There is a deductive "evidence": There could not be a "全能"being, as shown in the stone argument (Can God create a stone that he can't lift?)
On the other hand, I think it is something interesting to conduct a survey about. After all, we can't know other's reason in choosing certain religion...
[[i] 本帖最後由 weakest 於 2008-2-17 22:11 編輯 [/i]]
回復 7# 的帖子
未。「信移鼠大聖現象」之出現一定唔會早過佢首次還陽顯靈。因為「信移移鼠大聖」之內容包括還陽。
請提供資料予我方調查該日日期，以便决定計算到邊一日係「兩千年來」。
您一路賭緊，仲唔係professional?唔好咁謙喎
[url]http://exchristian.hk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1172&extra=page%3D1&page=2[/url]
「有強姦，冇焗賭」聽過啦卦？如果未，可能是貴會教牧隱瞞佢地做過啲咩 [quote]原帖由 [i]沙文[/i] 於 2008-2-17 22:15 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13941&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
「有強姦，冇焗賭」聽過啦卦？如果未，可能是貴會教牧隱瞞佢地做過啲咩[/quote]
咁未必ge...可能人地「有[color=red]講[/color]強姦，冇[color=red]講[/color]焗賭」lei...:lol
回復 10# 的帖子
人地一早叫咗唔可以話「d人愚蠢」，邊度會有咁愚蠢嘅教牧咖？您尊重下樓主好喎！:打:個個都係未俾人捉到都唔會認
[url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=40&extra=page%3D1]http://exchristian.hk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=40&extra=page%3D1[/url]
回復 11# 的帖子
咁人地教牧未必係愚蠢先會"「有講強姦，冇講焗賭」"ma. 人地可能只係唔想做賤人jer...[url]http://exchristian.hk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1404&extra=page%3D1[/url]
see post #1
回復 12# 的帖子
illogical。唔做賤人都可以係愚蠢。例如，雖則您唔賤，但未夠鐘就自動獻身答問題，係蠢。
而我，未夠鐘就拒絕答問題，係又賤又蠢。
蠢同賤，係冇conflict嘅 基督教能夠存在了若干年不倒，皆因它利用了人類一個幾乎共通的想法：“神”，呢塊招牌存在了多久我不知道，但必然比基督教早得多。自古以來人類對“神”都有幻想，有盼望，故此拜神這門生意，可說長做長有，歷久常新，我敢大膽做個假設，假如有日人類尋找到聖經原稿，証明整個神話故事，原來只是猶太人一本長篇小說，絕對地推翻了困擾人類上千年的耶和華信仰都好，人類都不會就此放棄“神”這種想法，世界都會有宗教，只是形式會改變一下。
因為只要有人肯消費，市場就自然有“神”供應。
[[i] 本帖最後由 訪客得得b 於 2008-2-17 23:16 編輯 [/i]]
回復 13# 的帖子
咪就係"蠢同賤，係冇conflict嘅"先可以又唔蠢, 又唔賤ma....人地西毒都係咁la...
回復 8# 的帖子
weakest, let me repeat :Ideas such as "the world is flat" is regarded as foolish today because you NOW know that the world is round. But to the people living in the time when scientists hadn't discovered this fact, this idea was not a foolish one.
------
喂各位, 離晒題既...做乜o係度討論我教牧有冇教我「有強姦，冇焗賭」呢? 呢樣野唔重要喎!
aquaticlunar呢個point very good!
3. 人的奴性以及依賴性萬年不變
你地有冇另外contribution呀?:) Thanks訪客得得b!
now,
1. people are foolish in this area.
2. fear of punishment after death, and the reward after-life
3. 人的奴性以及依賴性萬年不變
4. 人從起初已經在尋求一個"神"
回復 16# 的帖子
In fact, for me, even if the smartest person would be sometimes not so smart. The scientists could be not foolish in many times, but they could be foolish in accepting that the world is flat. It is difficult for people to be consistently smart at all times.Of course, my interpretation on "foolish" could be debatable...
回復 14# 的帖子
By the way, seeking for "God" could simply be a mean to justify that human are more superior than other observable things. Christianity do suggest that human beings (especially men) are more superior, although 自我貶抑in another sense (that all people are sinner...)
[[i] 本帖最後由 weakest 於 2008-2-17 23:59 編輯 [/i]] weakest:
seems that i didn't explain well enuf.....
it's not a matter of one's IQ or ability to think critically. The point is, NO ONE KNEW THE TRUTH(about the shape of the world at THAT time.)
Will you say they were foolish if they thought "the world is round" b4 scientists proved it?
-----------
yes...human beings are a lot more superior than other creatures.
for they are made in the image of God. they have many other unique aspects, such as spirituality, ethics, ideas of right and wrong, wisdom to create...
p.s. sigh, school tmr, see you later!:拜拜:
[[i] 本帖最後由 小妹 於 2008-2-18 00:17 編輯 [/i]]
回復 19# 的帖子
But at this time, someone knows that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the 全能Christian God to exist. Also, the guy who suggest the world is round is regarded as silly at the beginning, by those believing that the world is round... In my view of "foolish", I would say "yes, they are foolish".By the way, I should make some clarification on my words:
I DON'T think that human beings are superior than other animals personally. What I say is that people want to justify their view that "human beings are more superior than other animals".
For Christians, it is because "they are made in the image of God." as you said. For others, it may be of other reasons.
See you:拜拜:
[[i] 本帖最後由 weakest 於 2008-2-18 01:04 編輯 [/i]] 因為基督教盡得他幕後主子撒旦的真傳
善於 “[color=Red][size=6] 偽裝 [/size][/color]” [quote]原帖由 [i]小妹[/i] 於 2008-2-17 07:35 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13948&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
喂各位, 離晒題既...做乜o係度討論我教牧有冇教我「有強姦，冇焗賭」呢? 呢樣野唔重要喎! [/quote]因為係要回應您在post#6嘅發言咯。您唔教訓我地，我地點知原來您講嘢係唔重要嘅喎？ 「小妹」這個名字十分好聽，有嬌滴滴的感覺。:loveliness:
回答問題時間：
當翻開歷史，我們就會知道一場又一場的悲劇不斷地上演。有人說：歷史就像一個巨輪，不斷地循環。
當人類以為自己是萬物之靈，地球是全宇宙的中心，正反映人類的自大。以往世界各地許多地方都男尊女卑，亦曾大規模出現奴隷制度。
在細菌病毒傳染得厲害的時期，以為是有瘟神作怪。即使在黑死病年代，絕大部分人都認為是魔鬼在謀害世人。以上這些在現代人看來，那亦只是愚蠢的大多數而已。
一些自以為聰明的人，自以為可以倚仗著自己的聰明，卻往往逃不過Ｘ（稍後說明）。許多專業人士，包括律師、醫生、工程師等，在近代亦加入了轟動一時的奧姆真理教，再一次導致宗教慘劇。
我們身處的年代，自以為科技尖端、理性的年代，其實也只是歷史上其中的一段很短的時間而已。或者，在另一個二千年後，我們同樣地被未來的人視為愚蠢的人。
現代社會的人，物質豐富，受天災人禍的影響漸少；但相對來說，就缺乏愛的感覺，或者在高度結構性的社會中有一種迷失的感覺。
以「神會降災」、「苦難當作神的安排」等，就可滿足以前的人對不公平及災禍的接受。現在，「神是愛」、「耶穌就是道理真理生命」，充分地滿足了現代人的不足。
Ｘ是指甚麼，我想小妹能猜得到吧？:P
回復 23# 的帖子
其實，假設到咗「信移鼠大聖現象」持續夠了二千年，以上各位所講都唔係最終極嘅原因。回復 24# 的帖子
沙老大, 咁唔得wor. 唔該講o下真正原因la. 要有contribution ar....回復 25# 的帖子
其實我一早發表過啦：世上只有兩條終極真理您地冇人留心我的偉大哲學理論之嘛。 [quote]原帖由 [i]沙文[/i] 於 2008-2-18 02:31 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13961&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
其實我一早發表過啦：世上只有兩條終極真理
您地冇人留心我的偉大哲學理論之嘛。 [/quote]
what's your 兩條終極真理 ??
what's your 偉大哲學理論 ?? cheers ThANKye
:loveliness: [quote]原帖由 [i]小妹[/i] 於 2008-2-18 00:15 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13951&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
weakest:
seems that i didn't explain well enuf.....
it's not a matter of one's IQ or ability to think critically. The point is, NO ONE KNEW THE TRUTH(about the shape of the world at THAT time.)
Will ... [/quote]
My Fair Lady [i]小妹 ,
[/i] hi greeting good morning , :跪拜:
couldest thou declare whether thou wert a Catholic or Protestant ?
cheers ThANKye bestrespects , pendragon
回復 27# 的帖子
拿，我一早話過:[url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1238&extra=page%3D3]http://exchristian.hk/forum/view ... 1238&extra=page%3D3[/url]
呢兩條真理之所「終極」，係因為如果有上帝的話，連上帝都服從。
今次此條thread涉及者，主要係第2條：Murphy's Law
大秦景教能屹立X年不倒，冇錯的確係一個唔合理嘅現象，但係，好在歷史從來冇保證過所發生的一切事都要合理。所以，大秦景教能屹立X年不倒，係因為things will go wrong in any given situation, if you give them a chance.世上事物唔會因為「本應」係咁樣就一定要係咁樣。除了大秦景教能屹立X年不倒之外，您身邊仲充斥著好多唔合理嘅事物。
例如，好似男人去游水就可以除大赤勒周度走，但女人則一定要戴bra，夠係唔合理啦，點解大家幾千年來眼光光睇住咁唔合理嘅現象而又偏偏改變唔到呢？
打火機比火柴先進，應該係火柴發明先過打火機，點解又唔係嘅呢？
既然信舊約經，就應該用Rosh hashanah做元旦，點解又唔係嘅呢？
一部用一百萬成本拍嘅戲，您用一百蚊買飛睇；咁點解一部用一億成本拍嘅戲，您又係用一百蚊買飛睇呢？
歷史就係合理同不合理、偶然性同必然性互相交錯之下嘅矛盾產品。您係唔駛或者未必能夠諗啲理由出來將佢合理化嘅。就算您能夠，最後您都會發現，個答係同「為何信移鼠大聖能苟延殘喘X年」係一樣嘅；而且佢每年都有權問一次，令人相當煩擾。
我嘅理論其實並不偉大，頭先係搞下氣氛啫，要睇真正偉大嘅理論，大師級的"The Years without rice and salt"論及事物之可能發展此問題係幾得意嘅。
睇完之後，大家又要討論「為何信模罕默德現象能屹立不倒或苟延殘喘1,397年？」，但至少可以問得準確啲。若然佢反問為何信移鼠大聖比信模罕默德多500年歷史，係因為真主見有人信移鼠大聖之後才派模罕默德降生糾正此錯誤；若問為何信移鼠大聖比信模罕默德人口多，係因為信移鼠大聖之人較為兇悍，歷年戰事中信模罕默德之人被殺較多。 [quote]原帖由 [i]沙文[/i] 於 2008-2-18 06:40 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13968&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
例如，好似男人去游水就可以除大赤勒周度走，但女人則一定要戴bra，夠係唔合理啦[/quote]
我深信那些女人游水時是穿bikini，而不是戴bra，極度希望這只是沙文的手民之誤。
另外，沙文亦提出了一個重要的問題：為何其他宗教也能並存至今？是否亦同時印證了其他宗教的真實性？
回復 29# 的帖子
"若問為何信移鼠大聖比信模罕默德人口多，係因為信移鼠大聖之人較為兇悍，歷年戰事中信模罕默德之人被殺較多。"Jungle Law...:讚:
回復 30# 的帖子
"我深信那些女人游水時是穿bikini，而不是戴bra，極度希望這只是沙文的手民之誤。"
我深信沙老大絕對無誤. 你唔好跣佢la. 俾人知道咗佢"幾千年來眼光光睇住"D女穿bikini, 家變都似...
[[i] 本帖最後由 weakest 於 2008-2-18 14:16 編輯 [/i]] 妹妹仔,當你問穌哥乜事玩得到兩千年咁耐,有無同時問吓點解阿釋迦牟尼都屹立咗二千幾年咁耐呀?
[url]http://tw.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/?qid=1005040908381[/url] [quote]原帖由 [i]沙文[/i] 於 2008-2-17 22:15 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13941&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
[color=black]「信移鼠大聖現象」之出現一定唔會早過佢首次還陽顯靈[/color]。因為「信移移鼠大聖」之內容包括還陽。
請提供資料予我方調查該日日期，以便决定計算到邊一日係「兩千年來」。
[/quote]沙文兄，鼠年祝你早日信[color=black]移鼠大聖！[/color]
[color=#000000][/color]
[color=#000000]所需資料如下：[/color]
[color=royalblue]來11:24 摩西因著信、長大了就不肯稱為法老女兒之子．[/color]
[color=royalblue]來11:25 他寧可和神的百姓同受苦害、也不願暫時享受罪中之樂．[/color]
[color=royalblue]來11:26 他看為基督受的凌辱、比埃及的財物更寶貴．因他想望所要得的賞賜。[/color]
回復 30# 的帖子
超，您班友對女人了解不夠仲要質疑沙老大，睜開您地雙狗眼睇清楚：[size=5]咁樣，係叫做swimwear bra:[/size]
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[color=green]SWIM BRA LINE[/color]:studied for women that want tomove in water with comfort, support and safeness practising swim andwater-gym. Proposals for different age and requirements with inner bra.
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回復 33# 的帖子
冇錯嘞，結合職業賭徒小妹同兄您嘅計算，移鼠信仰起於主前1300年，所以，至主後700年之二千年間為其「屹立不倒」期。由主後701至今，係「苟延殘喘」期。我計得冇錯啦卦？鼠年信顛鼠教嘅移鼠大聖，咁就福無雙至，禍不單行
[img]http://www.pmdfoundation.org/images/crazy_mouse.gif[/img][img]http://www.pmdfoundation.org/images/crazy_mouse.gif[/img]
喂呀M2兄，您都好耐冇幫我解經嘞，盡下聖徒責任好喎。咁摩西信移鼠大聖而又娶兩個老婆，其實佢係咪摩門佬黎咖？
[color=Blue]Num12:1摩西娶了古實女子為妻．米利暗和亞倫、因他所娶的古實女子、就毀謗他、[/color]
回復 23# 的帖子
好感動.......抽刀的見解果然沒讓人失望!:努力:沙文: 你話"things will go wrong in any given situation, if you give them a chance".
跟這條IQ題: 點解小明在飛機上掉下來都冇死到?
既答案: 因為佢好采!!
實有異曲同工之妙.
Jom: 都知你地醒會舉一反三架喇~:讚: 不過今次係針對返基督教泥講, 大家都可以specific d.
now,
1. people are foolish in this area.
2. fear of punishment after death, and the reward after-life
3. 人的奴性以及依賴性萬年不變
4. 人從起初已經在尋求一個"神"
5. 社會的發展, 並未能填補人心靈的需要. 基督教的神卻提供了這方面的滿足. [quote]原帖由 [i]小妹[/i] 於 2008-2-18 22:15 發表
5. 社會的發展, 並未能填補人心靈的需要. 基督教的神卻提供了這方面的滿足. [/quote]
道教﹐佛教﹐回教﹐印度教都同樣做得到 :lol [quote]原帖由 [i]Guest[/i] from 218.111.36.x 於 2008-2-18 22:28 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13991&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
道教﹐佛教﹐回教﹐印度教都同樣做得到 :lol [/quote]
或許. 但我看內容是很不同的. [quote]原帖由 [i]小妹[/i] 於 2008-2-18 06:15 發表 [url=http://exchristian.hk/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=13990&ptid=1467][img]http://exchristian.hk/forum/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
沙文: 你話"things will go wrong in any given situation, if you give them a chance".
跟這條IQ題: 點解小明在飛機上掉下來都冇死到?
既答案: 因為佢好采!!
實有異曲同工之妙.[/quote]冇錯。您去赤鱲角睇下，停機坪上有幾多隻飛機可以跌一個小明出黎
回復 38# 的帖子
冇錯。就係內容是很不同的，但係偏偏又得，咁先好嘢嘛如果內容相同，咪會被一教壟斷咯？根據Sherman's Act, 咁樣係好濕滯嘅