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[數據資料] 基督教涉嫌的二次創作 / 抄襲

為熱烈預祝蛙島立法會拉布失敗,即將立法通過《2014年版權(修訂)條例草案》(a.k.a. 網絡23條),謹此貼出基督教涉嫌的二次創作 / 抄襲,使版權持有「神」能作出有關參考及作進一步追究(如需要)。


(陸續更新)

荷魯斯(Horus):約公元前三千年的古埃及神

事件 / 特徵荷魯斯耶穌
受孕處女神祇[有爭議]人類處女(聖母)
父親奧西里斯神(Osiris)的獨生子耶和華的獨生子(以聖靈的形式)
母親伊西斯梅里(Isis-Meri)瑪利亞(Miriam / Mary)
養父Seb(Jo-Seph, 即約瑟)約瑟
養父的祖先皇室血統皇室血統
出生地點山洞山洞 / 馬槽
報喜天使向母親報喜天使向母親報喜
預示出生晨星天狼星不知名星宿(被稱為「伯利恆之星」)
生日冬至時(約12月21日)古埃及人會帶同一個馬槽和一個兒童代表荷魯斯遊街,現實中他沒有出生日期,因為他是一個神,而不是人。在秋天出生,然而現在於12月25日慶祝誕辰,日子選在太陽神密特拉(Mithra)、酒神Dionysus和無敵太陽神索爾(Sol)等誕生的同一天。
出生宣告天使天使
出生見證牧羊人牧羊人
後來的出生見證三個太陽神祇聖經原沒確切記載共有多少位,只按禮物數量推測是三位,後被稱為「東方三博士」
嬰兒期的死亡威脅Herut王嘗試殺害但失敗希律(Herod)嘗試殺害但失敗
威脅處理神告知其母親:「帶同孩子躲起來吧。」他們躲在埃及某處。「有主的使者向約瑟夢中顯現,說:起來!帶著小孩子同他母親逃往埃及。」[太2:13]
禮儀12歲時進行特別儀式,回復荷魯斯之眼。12歲時被父母帶到寺廟中進行成人禮。
人生歷史的斷層12歲至30歲沒有資料12歲至30歲沒有資料
受洗30歲時在艾尼達斯河(Eridanus)受洗,施洗者為Anup。30歲時在約旦河受洗,施洗者為約翰。
施洗者的命運斬首斬首
誘惑試練由Amenta的沙漠被敵人Sut(即Set,希伯來描述的撒旦的前輩)帶到高山誘惑,被荷魯斯拒絕。由巴勒斯坦的沙漠被敵人撒旦帶到高山誘惑,被耶穌拒絕。
門徒12位[有爭議]12位
活動驅魔、治病、醫治盲人。曾使大海靜止。驅魔、治病、醫治盲人。曾向海說:「住了吧!靜了吧!」[可4:39]
令死人復活令父親奧西里斯復活令好友拉撒路復活
自己復活的地方埃及城市AnuBeth-Anu(Bethany,伯大尼,意即Anu的屋子)
變容在山上在山上
主要演說登山寶訓登山寶訓、平地寶訓
死於釘十字架或被蠍子刺死釘十字架
陪同兩名盜賊兩名盜賊
葬於墳墓墳墓
死後降到陰間,三天後復活降到陰間,約30-38小時後復活(星期五下午至星期日上午,前後三天)
復活宣告婦女婦女
與父神關係在登基之日,我是荷魯斯,我是Sepa城的阿努比斯(兄弟),我是萬有之王,我是奧西里斯(父)。[亡靈書69]我父把羊賜給我,他比萬有都大,誰也不能從我父手裡把他們奪去。我與父原為一。[約10:29-30]
未來千年國度千年國度
性質神秘角色一世紀時被視為先知,二世紀後被視為人神
主要角色人類救主人類救主
狀態神人神人
常見描寫處女伊西斯抱著嬰兒荷魯斯聖母瑪利亞抱著嬰兒耶穌
名銜KRST(受膏者)Christ(受膏者)
其他名稱好牧人、神的羔羊、生命之糧、人子、道(the Word)、漁夫、篩穀者好牧人、神的羔羊、生命之糧、人子、道(the Word)、漁夫、篩穀者
星座記號與雙魚座相關、魚與雙魚座相關、魚
主要符號魚、聖甲蟲、藤蔓、牧人杖魚、聖甲蟲、藤蔓、牧人杖
審判時救贖的標準「我把麵包分給飢餓的人,水給口渴的人,衣服給裸露的人,船給遇船難的水手。」「因為我餓了,你們給我吃,渴了,你們給我喝;我作客旅,你們留我住;我赤身露體,你們給我穿……」[太25:35-36]

資料主要來源自:http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5e.htm

更詳盡資料見:http://www.masseiana.org/aeapp.htm
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回覆 3# 沙文


    謝謝,讓我先整理一下。因人們好像對2樓荷魯斯和父神奧西里斯混了在一起,要多參考文獻再整理。
回覆 3# 沙文


    同埋麻煩提供基督教對家資料(即大寶積經卷)既大約出現時間,咁先有理由指出係邊個抄邊個丫嘛。
有關文獻指古埃及神之間屬性互換,所以奧西里斯、荷魯斯等都可混在一起。
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咪就係,除非識得時光倒流,否則邊個抄邊個,好明顯啦係咪?
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十分感謝Gauss版友的補充。

(1) 資料主要來源自網站Religious Tolerance網站,據我所知這個網站沒有偏幫任何單一宗教。該連結的資料來源為:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5d.htm#ref

我承認無法一一就有關References找出對應原始銘文。但該網就列舉雙方的辯論:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5c.htm

當中一句十分現實,看來再深入看下去是十分傷神的事(當然對專業有薪護教的人或是有薪專門研究宗教比較的學者來說,就是他們的職業):

Unfortunately, reading these information sources can be frustrating. Many of them contain statements like "Horus was crucified" or "There is no record of Horus being crucified," or "I have found no evidence for..." The reader is left hanging.

(3) 看過有關資料,指Osiris被分屍而死後,Isis化身為鷹以他的陰莖受孕。這情況實在無法以正常人類性交的概念類比。

正如耶和華也可化成風使瑪利亞受孕,同樣顛覆了正常人類產子必不為處女的定律。

(4) Osiris死後被製成木乃伊,待Horus成長成為新王後,他施法使其父親復活。這是看完以下冗長的維基作出的總結:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os ... urrection_of_Osiris

(2)(5) 我是業餘中的業餘,未作出學術文獻探討,也沒作實地考察,沒有資格回應你的反駁。

(6) 提及Horus有妻兒有何作用?
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這裡有人引用Pyramid Text與基督教作比較,有空可參考:

Hey guys, last week I took the liberty of going through the Pyramid Texts, and found many similarities to Christianity in them, and also a few interesting notes.

Keep in mind the Pyramid Texts were written as late as 2300 BC, and some scholars say that it was at least 3000 BC, so a matter of who copied who is not even a question now.

and here we go:

92. 61c. To say: Osiris N., take to thyself the eye of Horus, put it to thy face. To lift up one bread, one beer.

This is similar to the ritual of 'taking bread and wine'. While, I understand wine is not beer, same token too, they are both alcohol.

63a. Wash thyself, N.; open thy mouth with the eye of Horus.
63b. Summons, thy ka, like Osiris, that he may protect thee from all anger of the dead.


"washing" would be similar to Baptism. The "Ka" is similar to the "holy ghost", the unseen protector from evil (anger of the dead here)

132a. N. was conceived in the night; N. was born in the night.
132b. He belongs, to the Followers of Rē‘, who are before the morning star.

Just wanted to show that people were referencing the Morning Star at least 2000 years before the bible. So, where do you think the phrase originated? Obvious answer

137a. Go after (pursue) thy sun (days); purify thyself,
137b. (for) thy bones are (those of) female-falcons, goddesses, who are in heaven,

There is one bible verse with a reference to female angels Zecharia 5:9 King James Bible
Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind [was] in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.
Now, I know a stork is not a falcon, but the point is they are both women with bird wings. On a side note, I read that this bible verse is the only one in which the angels are female. Can someone confirm or refute this?

145a. No seed of a god, which belongs to him, goes to ruin; so thou who belongest to him wilt not go to ruin.
"That whoever beleivieth in him shall not perish" sounds VERY similar to me.

237a. To say: The serpent which came forth from the earth is fallen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen.
Serpent is what satan is thought to be in the OT, and he is "fallen" as well. Hmmmm

275a. To say: He is pure, who was purified in the Marsh of Reeds.
275b. Rē‘ is purified in the Marsh of Reeds.
275c. He is pure, who was purified in the Marsh of Reeds.
275d. This N. is purified in the Marsh of Reeds.

Another similarity to baptism.

357a. The sister of N. is Sothis; the mother of N. is the morning star.
Ah-ha! The Morning Star is Feminine!

422a. To say: Punish the serpent, Kbbhḥrwbi,
422b. O lion of phti, O lion of ptti, the phti (and) ptti.
422c. Give to me now, ḥrwtwbś, meat, now, one pot.
422d. Go, go, serpent, serpent.

Lion / Serpent motif. The Lion of Judah anyone?

525a. To say: The double doors of heaven are open; the double doors of ḳbḥ.w are open
The Pearly Gates?

990a. Rē‘, impregnate the body of Nut with the seed of the spirit, which shall be in her.
Here we are ladies and gentlemen... Ra is the top god, whom impregnates Nut with the seed of the spirit, very similar to Mary being impregnated with the Spirit.

Next verse is far off from the verse above, so to say if they are in relation to each other or not is kind of difficult. I beleive Nut had a few children.

1082b. Nut has given birth to (it) as her daughter, the morning star.
Here again we see the Morning Star is feminine. How did it get changed to be male in the Bible? This is highly interesting to me, because the Morning Star is Venus, and Venus is a feminine planet, as we all know from the Greek Goddess Aphrodite. These references to the Morning Star being feminine also negate the supposition that Satan and Lucifer (the morning star) are the same entity, as Satan is SOLELY referred to as HE. Now the issue of Jesus being the feminine Morning Star arises. :? Let's just move on from that for now...

11199a. Stand up, Osiris,
1199b. commend N. to those who are on "Śḫm is joyous" north of the Marsh of Offerings,
1199c. like as thou didst commend Horus to Isis the day that thou didst impregnate her,

I have included this verse to show that I am an equal-opportunity researcher. These versus prove that Horus was not born of a holy spirit, so yes that whole Isis Osiris Horus bit is out the window. Now, we will need to focus on Nut and the verse above for the correlations.

1021b. my son, N., is come in peace, so says she, Nut
I backed up a bit to get this verse to show that Nut also had bore a son. This will be expounded on more in depth later as it will be a lengthy explanation.

1279c. he is accursed; he is one who eats his (own) body.
This is interesting as at the Last Supper, Jesus said that the bread represented his body and the wine his blood, and he ate of the Bread. According to these texts, he who eats his own body is accursed. Hmmm okay, interesting. rubs chin while pondering

1416c. It is grievous (?) for thy body, O Nut, because of the divine seed, which shall be in thee (or, in thy mother).
1417a. N., this one, he is the divine seed, which shall be in thy mother, Nut.

So the Divine Seed in Nut is this N. In Christianity, Jesus is the Divine Seed. So, it seems that in the Christian Mythos, Jesus has taken the spot of what the Pharaoh was in the Pyramid Texts. Interesting to note that Jesus is reffered to as the "King".

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=146269
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十分可笑,這些東西算是什麼「辯論」?
Gauss 發表於 2015/12/31 21:39



    在各種偏頗的資料來源中,能找到這種相對中立的平台,而且還列舉了對陣雙方的連結讓讀者自行觀看,不是預設了某立場然後一面倒攻擊另一方,如果你也有認真找過類似資料,就知道這算是十分罕見,亦沒有什麼可笑之處。
回覆 15# 沙文


    它拿「道」字而不是用「字」譯The Word,就知道在翻譯上取用了道教的詞彙己用啦。
Matt 13:24 耶穌又設個比喻對他們說、天國好像人撒好種在田裡.
及至人睡覺的時候、有仇敵來、將稗子撒在麥 ...
沙文 發表於 2015/12/29 05:09


    ... in his first estate child-Horus was the sower of the seed, and in his second character at the second coming he is the reaper of the harvest.  Thence comes the parable of the sower.  In the pictures to the Ritual Horus is the sower who goes forth to sow the seed in the field of his father.  And when he sows the wheat the enemy that is Sut the power of darkness, comes by night and sows the field with tares and thorns and thistles, it being his work to undo all the good that Horus does. (Gerald Massey, Ancient Egypt: Light Of The World, p805)

如果找到原文,就可比較荷魯斯vs佛陀vs耶穌了。
回覆 19# Gauss


    對應Ancient Egypt: Light Of The World一書中描述Horus作為撒好種者的有關銘文。

阿提斯(Attis):約公元前1200年的佛里吉亞和古希臘神

事件 / 特徵阿提斯耶穌
受孕處女神祇[有爭議]人類處女(聖母)
母親Nana(河神之女)瑪利亞(Miriam / Mary)
死於死後被懸掛在松樹上,流血為世人贖罪釘死在十字架(木頭 / 樹)上,流血為世人贖罪
葬於墳墓墳墓
死後降到陰間,三天後復活[有爭議]降到陰間,約30-38小時後復活(星期五下午至星期日上午,前後三天)
死亡至復活日期3月22日(「黑色星期五」)至25日受難日(復活日前三日,星期五)至復活日(春分[3月21/22日]後首個月圓後首個星期日)
主要角色獨生子、救主、好牧人獨生子、救主、好牧人
聖餐屍體以麵包形式被崇拜者分食麵包、酒轉化為耶穌的血肉被崇拜者分食分飲(不同教派對麵包及酒能否可發酵、與及是象徵還是實際變質為耶穌血肉等存在分歧)
浸禮灑或浸公牛血,清洗崇拜者的罪,使其重生(牛祭,taurobolium)
以水化為耶穌的血,清洗崇拜者的罪,使其重生
主要符號牧人杖、綿羊牧人杖、綿羊
帽子弗里吉亞帽(Phrygian cap)聖誕老人帽的形象來自弗里吉亞帽

參考:
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/attis.php
http://www.tektoonics.com/test/p ... _christs_attis.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attis
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/zeitgeistsourcebook.pdf
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/pagangodattisdiedresurrected.html
http://www.maicar.com/GML/Attis.html
http://www.truthbeknown.com/attis.html
http://www.bartleby.com/196/81.html
http://kingencyclopedia.stanford ... c_500215_029.1.html
https://wendysalter.wordpress.com/tag/santa-claus/
http://christianthinktank.com/mostlybull.html
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回覆 22# Gauss


    嗯,在進行這類「抄襲」研究,有反對聲音正好為研究增加中立性,所以我很珍惜你的反對作「驗證」。
Ward Gasque是誰?他會跟一些基督徒般,為主而作謊言麼?他的「調查」中立性如何?

這裡有相反意見:
http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3853

當中說:
The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" three times 682c, 728a, 2002a
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(3) 如果你要用常理來看神話,就應先質疑拿著一條死掉的陰莖可作甚麼。用一條死掉的陰莖受精,又算不算「破處」?

(4) The new king performs funerary rites for his father and gives food offerings to sustain him—often including the Eye of Horus, which in this instance represents life and plenty.[85] According to some sources, only through these acts can Osiris be fully enlivened in the afterlife and take his place as king of the dead, paralleling his son's role as king of the living. Thereafter, Osiris is deeply involved with natural cycles of death and renewal, such as the annual growth of crops, that parallel his own resurrection.

如果你硬說這不符合「復活」的定義,那也應一併質疑耶穌的「復活」。
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回覆 28# Gauss


(3) 沒有曾經死掉,又何來revivified?Isis拿著一條死掉的陰莖施法使其revivified,是她的本事。某某拿著吹氣公仔做愛後,他又是否破了處?

(4) 關於Osiris的復活:

only through these acts can Osiris be fully enlivened in the afterlife and take his place as king of the dead


enlivened: to make vigorous or active; invigorate
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enliven?s=t

中國人拜祭祖先燒衣,是假設了祖先在某處活著。
不紅的, 為何要仿?
beebeechan 發表於 2016/1/6 12:50



    紅的話,一仿就人人皆知。
原來天主教一早有人發現瑪利亞個處女產子係抄襲Isis生荷魯斯既,難怪陳版友無否認到,仲即刻開始淡化抄襲既罪行啦。

Conrady [33] found in the Virgin Mary a Christian imitation of the Egyptian goddess Isis, the mother of Horus

(From Catholic Encyclopedia)
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學學你的技巧,先弄個血紅標題:

實事求是,是非黑白不可混淆

(1) 說解釋太大膽和擔心朋友走向懸崖,這兩句算是哪門子的「反意見」?有何參考價值?

(2) 我一直都沒說是「事實」,事實上正如你所說,這是難以證實或證偽,因此連本主題都用上「涉嫌」字眼。
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