dye

The above is dye.. back to HKSAR

dye

The idea here is that children are born in such a way that they have a high tendency to copy whatever believe told by the society.  It is a trait evolved over a million years.

When the children grow up, it is very difficult to change these underlying belief even if they do think about it.  Again, it is evolved.

We have
a)Church actively controling the education system by using the government/kidnapping kids/luring with goods

b)We have kids copying all these belief into their hardwired belief at an early age when they are not ready to think

The result is predictable.  Be it Christian or Muslim.  The only question is who is better at doing it.  Evolution would sugggest a few point will be very important.

1) Have variety in the pool of belief so that it can evolve.  (How many sect are there in Christianity (over a hundred)?  Muslim (2-3)? Bushism (under 10)?  Hinduism (Millions)?

2) The fidelity of the copying process.  For muslim, it is perfect as they have to memorize the whole thing and repeat it every day.  For Catholic, it is similiar but weaker.

...etc
----------------
To weskest,

Eliminating these by-products is unlikely.  How do parents pass information to their children noise-free?  Sounds impossible to me.

BUT when there is a will, there is a way.

dye

For those interested, please see

http://www.channel4.com/culture/ ... tes/rootofevil.html

The root of all evils - part 2

---------------
The question is, atheist has been procecuted for such a long time (probably since the beginning of history and is still discriminated today).  How is it that it is growing so rapidly today (especially among the intellectual)?

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-20 11:19 編輯 ]

dye

Biological evolution suggest that organism will evolve according to enviromental pressure.

So population will neither evolve will be better or worst.  It will just evolve to be "fitter".  It is a misconception Creationist brought into evolution.  The fact is that there is no direction for evolution.

So, if the world is in a way such that stupid people are better fitted to survive, people will evolve to be more stupid.  

On a sad notes, we know as a fact that poorer and less educated people tend to have more children.  From UN charter of rights, these same people has a important control over the education the children is going to get.  So.. um.. we already have an environment that is favorable to stupidity.  (Up til the rich and educated bunch decided to 'help', like project Hope, like Oxfam...)

If anyone is interested in "changing the environment"  see below, the "campaign for education"

http://www.campaignforeducation.org/news/news_full.html#verdict

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Wait wait, the same trait that makes religion, is also the trait that makes learning possible.  I am not sure if we really want these "roots" eliminated (even if we are capable).

Just as, removing sex altogather is a horrible way to eliminate STDs...

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-20 14:48 編輯 ]

dye

孟子說﹕“民為貴﹐社稷次之﹐君為輕”

天子犯法與庶民同罪

—————
看來政府要多撥款在公民教育上

-------------------
Situation in city God wanted to conquer

Joshua 6
20 When the trumpets sounded, the people shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the people gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so every man charged straight in, and they took the city. 21 They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

24 Then they burned the whole city and everything in it, but they put the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron into the treasury of the LORD's house. 25 But Joshua spared Rahab the prostitute, with her family and all who belonged to her, because she hid the men Joshua had sent as spies to Jericho—and she lives among the Israelites to this day.


26 At that time Joshua pronounced this solemn oath: "Cursed before the LORD is the man who undertakes to rebuild this city, Jericho:
       "At the cost of his firstborn son
       will he lay its foundations;
       at the cost of his youngest
       will he set up its gates."


27 So the LORD was with Joshua, and his fame spread throughout the land.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 14:50 編輯 ]

dye

Please be accurate, shall we?

Leviticus 18
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
-----

The chapter is about sexual practise.  Surely, it is is good reason to genocide children and elderly because some of them did something interesting in their private bedroom.

dye

那他引用哪一條無神論論點？

（注意，基徒殺人引用的正正是和你讀的同一本書，引用和PAUL同一的道理）

—————
If he did cite reasonably secular humanism value to rob you, I will gladly apologize (and investigate).

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 15:31 編輯 ]

dye

How is that related to the robbing (as he tells you?)

Secular Humanism is not a perfect 'thing'.  I am not even trying to be dogmatic about it.  It is no big deal to investigate about it.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 15:33 編輯 ]

dye

人不為己，天誅地滅 is NOT part of the idea common among atheist.

But when Joshua did his genocide:

Joshua 10
40 So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.

-------------
I am ready to condemn the one who rob you.  Are you ready to condemn God?  (Or you are trying to say Joshua got it all wrong from God even though God stop the sun and throw hail stone to aid his genocidal campaign?)

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 15:43 編輯 ]

dye

From what I read 黃帝's tribe has only expelled 蚩尤's tribe at the end (which is a suspected part of my ancestry).

But, hey, if  黃帝 did order to murder everyone on the land, I will condemned him too.  

BUT he is not God, he is not all knowing.  He may not know what he is doing.  He is not all powerful and may have very few option opened to him.  He do not have hindsight either.  So I would say he is condemned but most likely excused for what he did.  You know, if a baby put his hand into the electical outlet, it is not called 'suicide'.

Do we need to continue?  I also condemn Chun's first empire for his murderous campaign.  I also condemn Guan Yu's flood-the-city campaign in his later year.  BUT they are all limited in intelligence (brain power, or just pure information), power.  It will at least excuse part of their sick behaviour.

So what do you say, are you prepare to condemn God?
---------------

From what I understand of the time, "killing everyone in the tribe" is not a common practise in the area.  This tactic only begin at the warring states period.  Up to the Spring-Autumn period, the common mode is to conquer a city, not to murder everyone in it.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 16:24 編輯 ]

dye

It is a genocide

Joshua 10
40 So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.

-------------------
Did you forget they one of the tribe around there is ENSLAVED?  Remember one of the prostitute who betray her tribe is spared?

Or perhaps some of them manage to escape the genocide?  I mean, if a Chinese survive the Nanking Massacre, it is not a genocide anymore?
--------------
Oh, do you need to murder the kids, and the elderly?

Good old Joshua murdered these fellow even AFTER their army is subdued.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 16:35 編輯 ]

dye

The intent is different.  If the tribe is expelling without the intent of killing everyone, it is hardly a genocide.  

Israel is in fact using this to expell the Palestanian away.  BUT just because it is not a genocide, does not mean it is a moral behaviour.  (When it bgin to "cut" the water and transport in the region, it turns into a genocide)

Kosovo has just gone independent.  Quebec is also allow to vote about it.  Even though the boundary is changed, it is not exactly immoral.  The common understanding is that everyone has a bit of right to decide on which country you belong to.  (Perhaps you have to realize the question is HOW you are going to change the boundary)

-------------------------
With God's blessing, the tribe can live togather in harmony.  They can interbreed.
The Israelis has no need to fight for the land.  It is a very big place, duh.  With God's help, skyscraper is a piece of cake.

------------------------
The reason is obvious.  What is done, cannot be undone.  Let's begin a new life from a certain point on, and stop these genocide non-sense.

It is wrong in the past, it is wrong at the present.  We avoid these crime against humanity because we have made enough mistakes (even though Bible claim God command the genocide and proud of it)

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 16:53 編輯 ]

dye

Someone manage not to breath?  Or someone manage to breath without God's detection?  Or perhaps there are some that not in the area at the moment of the slaughter and only come back later in time to be.. enslaved.

Joshua 10
40 So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.

---------
If we are told that Joshua slaughter everything that breath around there.  Then we are later told that there are fellow of foreign origin in the area.  You think it is possible these foreigner moved INTO the area after the slaughter?

Or maybe Joshua lied?
----------
To be honest, it is not part of real history anyway.  Bible is LYING about it ever since the beginning.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 17:05 編輯 ]

dye

Oh damn.  The southern Chinese can live togather with them.  It is a large place even without God's help to build skyscrapper.

------------
Jordan is actually discriminating against the Palestanian refugee and is forcing them back.

------------
For Kosovo, majority rules.  Your proposal is just plain horrible, if it is so, they will be back to Yugoslavia and the genocide will start all over again.

dye

By God's Law, do you mean the Law of Moses?

We need Sherman over here.

Sher--- man.. Sher --- man

-------------
Oh mine.  So Joshua is a false prophet.  Moses is a false prophet.. among the many.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 17:36 編輯 ]

dye

Interbreed.  Interbreed.  

Land surveying help.  The land resources can be limited, but since we are not all knowing, we can find good places that is uninhabited.

Influx of tech also help.  New method of farming can increase the capacity of the land, and possibly make what used to be inhabitable land habitable.

Among the many possibility...  you need to be innovative here.

----------------------
When God is on your sides, land can become fertile!

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 17:42 編輯 ]

dye

Instead of debatng till our face turn blue and the cows comes home, below I offer you a bit of comics for a relieve.