dye

回復 93# Nomad

If religious class is (truly) bad for student, the merit base system will make them pay!  How is the government know what is best for the kids?

Again, if religious class is (truly) bad for student, they will not learn (right?)  If they consistent fail their exam, the government and parents will make them pay.

Now, suppose the religious class is waste of money, they will forego other learning opportunities.  If they consistent underperform (compare to school of simliar funding), the government and parents will still make them pay.

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The logic is beyond religious activities.  The school can have astrology, hemeotherpy activities too.  If they are harmful (or not effective), they will face face the same consequences.

On the other hand, if the government put a heavy restriction on what idealogy can be taught in class, would it not be like replacing it with 'goverment religion'?  (The non-religious school in HK replaces Religion Class with Civil Class, which is just pro-government class.)

Nomad

The affirmative action is a disgraceful law to begin with.  Are you saying that the minorities NEED  ...
dye 發表於 2010/7/6 16:40

    Still flat wrong.

A previously prestigious group hold higher economical power because of their they pocketed money from their previous power, therefore one needs subsdizary to the a previously un-prestigious group as their community lack the social and economical status for in-group support.

Nomad

回復  Nomad

So it shows with effort you can change the future!

But history has its restrain.  The ...
dye 發表於 2010/7/6 16:34

    Effort? Well, a person of the general public can ALWAYS, protest on the grounds that to force a student to attend a religious class of a certain religion and put arbitrary out-of-school time into a part of it is a violation of their religious freedom, on the grounds that a funded school is supposed to be a government property. Anyone put any effort anywhere close to that? what about tax incentives for private schools? No.

dye

The affirmative action is a disgraceful law to begin with.  Are you saying that the minorities NEED the special treatment to reach the top?

If the system is based on merit, minorities should and will eventually succeed in reaching the top.  If the cat can catch a mouse, does it matter if it is black or white?

Think about what would happen if they have affirmative action in World Cup.  If they required that the final 8 team must come from the all different continent just to be 'fair'.  Is it fair?  Rather, it will be a look down on the country that the law is trying to protect!  What, the Brazilian and Agentina team can compete because we have enough from South America?  Or we can't have a whole final four with only European countries?

dye

The debate is that in Canada, being a minority give you a unfair chance to be a lawyer even if you fail the exam. (When the White Anglo Saxon Male fellow is unable to be a lawyer even if he pass all exams)

The same happen in PRC for their minorities.  It is part of the reason the Hans hated the Islamist in Xinjiang.

Nomad

回復 [url=redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=62677&ptid=5457]86#[/url] dye


Thedebate in US is usually something goes like in UCB, for example, that40% of the faculties are CHINESE, over representing the ethnicity'spopulation in the state by a heck lot and therefore they stoppedaffirmative action. The argument that the whole thing calledaffirmative action should not be started, has far less supporters thanthe former.

And then when a system was dominated by a singular group of people for a long enough time, one changes the system to fit their own performance to bar competition - it's never always a better performance that makes a firm survive - look at those oil companies.

dye

回復 87# Nomad

So it shows with effort you can change the future!

But history has its restrain.  The fame is not there at the begining, it will take time and effort to build it.

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Simliarly, if say Budhism consistently outperform school of simliar funding, it will rise in ranking to challenge the next ranking level until it reaches the top.

Nomad

回復 84# dye

    They change the administration to improve the quality, but NOT go around screw with funding basis on bad result coz, as shown in the case in HK, a reduction of funding due to current performance further declines the school.

And again, you missed the word: most schools are FUNDED, by the government. That makes a difference.

Nomad

回復 82# Nomad


On this, the VERY SAME SCHOOL I am sitting on right now is a government funded school that started when this piece of land has nothing but cows and land is cheap as dirt (compare to other cities, this piece of land still is.) and they started this crap because no one can affort education in this state - it is now the second strongest university in Plasma Physics.

dye

If the government begin an affirmative action based on religion, would it not be a unfair?

In fact, is it not a debate in US and Canada on the reverse discrimination created by affirmative action?

It does not happen to you that older school that manage to gain a reputation in the past has experience, tradition that is of some value? Simliarly, it is not a conincident that company with a shining past is highly price?

Nomad

回復 81# dye


From "HISTORY", before the handover, the British government had always been biased on Christian schools as Buddhists had always applied the same way, and not get fundings, then two problems are around as 1. older schools tends to climb higher up the rank as people know more about it and 2. there WAS a funding bias BACK THEN, and now that would not change because the ranking system drives previously underfunded schools to stay underfunded.

One has to see BS like this to appreciate this nice little thing called affirmative action.

dye

In Hong Kong, most school is not runned by government.  It is only REGULATED.  Even if the governmene run school, there will be difference in quality (not dictated by the government, but by the effort of the staff of the school).

Are you telling me in US publich school, if the school consistently produce student with horrible score will face no consequences whatsoever?

Nomad

回復 80# dye


Oh except all you talk about is your little "quality" of education (which by history of what people protest about is mostly about exam grades or even more particularly, language grades, as much as news shows) freedom? no one sounds like they care.

Nomad

回復 79# dye


Flat wrong: for a school that's government funded to begin with, like that in HK, its core funding (like teacher salary, therefore the ability to hire teacher with good qualification), comes from the government, which means the government decides how good they runs a school - by most part. Donations usually comes for facilities (mostly one-time construction), and is less critical than the ability to hire better teachers from the market, which in the case of HK, is pretty much all government money for most schools. Which is why in US cutting of state budget in education usually is a disaster, like now).

The argument would also make those "best publics" like the california ones which dominates the UCB entry, looks like miracles.

dye

The government is NOT funding the school differently BECAUSE they are of a PARTICULAR religion.  So they ARE simliar.

If the only library intact is Alexandria, and government protect it, it does not mean government is favouring paganism.  It is only that they are favouring quality.

In order to have an argument, you have to show that the government is having a different scheme of funding base on religion, instead of merit.

dye

回復 73# Nomad

The second part is YOUR word.  Not mine.

I have said from the begining that they do care about their education and freedom.  Just not the way YOU wish them to be.

dye

The school that recieve the best student (usually also meant richest student) WILL be very differently funded regardless of what the government do (or not do).  The basic drive behind the whole idea is the wish for every parent to give their children the best education.

For example, in PRC, you will notice that the land price increase sharply in famous (public) school area.

Nomad

回復 76# dye


And no, I did NOT, say, for example, NO ONE, has the option, but only saying that option is very limited and the substition service provided is by no means similar. In the same argument, a heck lot of liberty impaired can be said liberty granted.

Nomad

回復 76# dye


Except in US they don't receive government funding out of the ranking - as schools in HK does, they receive funding out government funding out of this thing called the state budget. Without this part, one would NOT have a circular system to drive outside school into the bottom.

dye

回復 69# Nomad

One has to be particularly dishonest to say they have no option. You must compare option with option.  With or without religion, there WILL be ranking.  Even, with or without government, there WILL still be ranking.

Even public school system in Canada has an underground ranking.