Nomad

回復 53# dye


Which means they simply don't care about their own religious freedom, and what's a people who would freely submit that? Someone in one of those "Islamic Republic" maybe?

Nomad

回復 52# dye

#31:

回復  Nomad

You can pick your public highschool in HK.  You HAVE a choice.


For exampl ...
dye 發表於 2010/7/6 14:18

dye

They do have a protest against the government reform the school system.  They are concern, just not in your particular narrow topic.

dye

回復 46# Nomad

The fully funded school is definitely not religious.
The subsidize school may not be Christian.

I am not the one mentioning 6%, you are.

I am only saying that there are choices other than Christian school.

Nomad

回復 49# dye


It is that simple: is there even a mentioning of legislation of Art. 23 now? No, it's postponed indefinitely, period.

Nomad

回復 47# dye


No, you can't have a present without a past, but who lives on the past, using it as an excuse not to deal with things they don't want to, won't ever get to the future, because they dwell on it. What I have shown, is even that was a limitation of the past is shown in Basic Law, just like how Article 23 is effectively ignored, if the people ever has any piece of a bit of determination, that piece of freedom is FAR EASIER, than, for example, universal suffrage 2012.

And then again, a people who cares only about voting but not their constitutional rights has clearly been shown in history - it's called German Republic post WWI.

The reason why past exist, most of the time, is that we need to learn a lesson from it.

dye

No they cannot.  Article 23 is not changed and cannot be changed.  The protest simply stop it from moving forward.

Nomad

回復 44# dye


Nope, they did. By "fighting" to be involved they DID fight to get a certain intrepretation of the basic law, and by any means, the same kind of protesting can certainly be done for ANY OTHER PARTS of the basic law, just like they did to Article 23, which is "postponed indefinitely". Was there a single protest for the rights discussed in this threat by the HK public that has anything even remotely comparable to that scale? No, period. Not even 1/10, 1/100, nor even 1/1000.

dye

Had the Basic Law been change and refuse to maintain the status quo then, would the government then be able to maintain the stability before and during the handover?

The promise to keep thing unchange for 50 years serve a purpose then, and may have consequences today (just like the civil servant's high salary)  But how can you have the present without a past?

Nomad

回復 41# dye


First thing get REALLY clear about this, 6% public school, means 6% schools FUNDING, OWNED, AND RUN by government. That is, what you claimed, to be "Public High", would mean in any other parts of the world, which I proved to be under 6%. I did NOT refer, however, to all non-Christian choices, and that includes the concern of the fact that most of them are underfunded, under-ranked, (therefore has no selection of students), and therefore consistently botched. (particularly that poor PLK, they never had the ability to hire good teachers, at all)

Now,
http://chsc.hk/secondary/tc/advancesearch.asp
That's our stupid EDB tool on school searching (high school)
Total number of schools: 459
Total number of Protestant "funded" schools: 123
Total number of Protestant "direct subsidized" schools: 22
Total number of Catholics "funded" schools: 82
Total number of Catholics "direct subsidized" schools: 6
Total number of subsidized schools EXCLUDING schools subsidized on a attendee basis: 233
Percentage: 50.76
A good assumption is most schools, particularly excluding Rural Area, in which public and non-religious schools has a higher percentile, is of similar size, which means funded religious schools takes up 50% of the seats, and with a circularly rating system, most government funding.

dye

回復 43# Nomad

THe election of the functional group is complex.  Not all are corporate vote.  Many of them are individual vote.

dye

It is not Hong Kong people did not involve.  But Hong Kong people is not ALLOWED to be involved.

It is then a British colony.  It is now a PRC "colony"

---------
When people in HK is fighting for democracy, they are fighting to be involved to begin with.

If everyone in Legco is elected by the populace today, HK people will have 'some' influence over the matter.

Nomad

回復 42# dye


Except you can join them, get through their test, and become on the the election member, then have a choice.
It's a long test, not many people get there, but by the same means, it's a choice.

dye

回復 38# Nomad

Note that functional group and the election committe for Chief executive are different.

dye

The government directly funded 6% of the highschool.  They are non-religious.
For 38.5% of the subsidized school, not all are religious.  Of those that are religious, not all are Christians.
For the ones that is buying seat, it is a simliar situation.
The 9% private school is still the same.

-------
Conclusion, you have more than 6% of the seat from non-Chistian school.

Nomad

And then of course, as said:

to say that the Hong Kong people did not involve in the signing of the basic law adds no teeth the the counter argument that they had made no effort to fight for that right (therefore, not quite deserving it.)

Benjamin Franklin once said "They who sacrifice their essential liberty for a temporary safety, deserves neither liberty nor safety"*, to those who would give up their essential liberty without even buying　any national security, I wonder what he would say.

* (of course that's the same guy who would try to conscript Americans into the army, so yeah, it's hard to apply this one into national security, really.)

Nomad

回復 37# dye


The 24th, BTW, buying seats from a school DO counts as government funding (at least under US law), since the money does not go to the parents to choose which school (including private) they go but to the school directly.

Nomad

回復 35# dye

Of course there's no such exodus, because the parents has no choice at all (there simply aren't enough seats to move into - HK education system is SATURATED, look at that damn 43 people class at every high school in the urban area, and then a self-feeding ranking system ensures underfunded schools always gets underfunded), and they won't voice it, period. (oh in fact the students themselves who ARE the ones under the education, is conveniently out of the picture, again.)

No, you have a choice, you can go start a firm or something to become a functional group member and from there, become one of that 800 (just quite like going through that school system selection bullshit), same deal.

dye

回復 36# Nomad

I am sorry.  Which page?

Nomad

For your reference, that's where the 6% comes from:
http://www.edb.gov.hk/FileManager/SC/Content_689/edsys_c.pdf