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[數據資料] 基督教涉嫌的二次創作 / 抄襲

為熱烈預祝蛙島立法會拉布失敗,即將立法通過《2014年版權(修訂)條例草案》(a.k.a. 網絡23條),謹此貼出基督教涉嫌的二次創作 / 抄襲,使版權持有「神」能作出有關參考及作進一步追究(如需要)。


(陸續更新)

荷魯斯(Horus):約公元前三千年的古埃及神

事件 / 特徵荷魯斯耶穌
受孕處女神祇[有爭議]人類處女(聖母)
父親奧西里斯神(Osiris)的獨生子耶和華的獨生子(以聖靈的形式)
母親伊西斯梅里(Isis-Meri)瑪利亞(Miriam / Mary)
養父Seb(Jo-Seph, 即約瑟)約瑟
養父的祖先皇室血統皇室血統
出生地點山洞山洞 / 馬槽
報喜天使向母親報喜天使向母親報喜
預示出生晨星天狼星不知名星宿(被稱為「伯利恆之星」)
生日冬至時(約12月21日)古埃及人會帶同一個馬槽和一個兒童代表荷魯斯遊街,現實中他沒有出生日期,因為他是一個神,而不是人。在秋天出生,然而現在於12月25日慶祝誕辰,日子選在太陽神密特拉(Mithra)、酒神Dionysus和無敵太陽神索爾(Sol)等誕生的同一天。
出生宣告天使天使
出生見證牧羊人牧羊人
後來的出生見證三個太陽神祇聖經原沒確切記載共有多少位,只按禮物數量推測是三位,後被稱為「東方三博士」
嬰兒期的死亡威脅Herut王嘗試殺害但失敗希律(Herod)嘗試殺害但失敗
威脅處理神告知其母親:「帶同孩子躲起來吧。」他們躲在埃及某處。「有主的使者向約瑟夢中顯現,說:起來!帶著小孩子同他母親逃往埃及。」[太2:13]
禮儀12歲時進行特別儀式,回復荷魯斯之眼。12歲時被父母帶到寺廟中進行成人禮。
人生歷史的斷層12歲至30歲沒有資料12歲至30歲沒有資料
受洗30歲時在艾尼達斯河(Eridanus)受洗,施洗者為Anup。30歲時在約旦河受洗,施洗者為約翰。
施洗者的命運斬首斬首
誘惑試練由Amenta的沙漠被敵人Sut(即Set,希伯來描述的撒旦的前輩)帶到高山誘惑,被荷魯斯拒絕。由巴勒斯坦的沙漠被敵人撒旦帶到高山誘惑,被耶穌拒絕。
門徒12位[有爭議]12位
活動驅魔、治病、醫治盲人。曾使大海靜止。驅魔、治病、醫治盲人。曾向海說:「住了吧!靜了吧!」[可4:39]
令死人復活令父親奧西里斯復活令好友拉撒路復活
自己復活的地方埃及城市AnuBeth-Anu(Bethany,伯大尼,意即Anu的屋子)
變容在山上在山上
主要演說登山寶訓登山寶訓、平地寶訓
死於釘十字架或被蠍子刺死釘十字架
陪同兩名盜賊兩名盜賊
葬於墳墓墳墓
死後降到陰間,三天後復活降到陰間,約30-38小時後復活(星期五下午至星期日上午,前後三天)
復活宣告婦女婦女
與父神關係在登基之日,我是荷魯斯,我是Sepa城的阿努比斯(兄弟),我是萬有之王,我是奧西里斯(父)。[亡靈書69]我父把羊賜給我,他比萬有都大,誰也不能從我父手裡把他們奪去。我與父原為一。[約10:29-30]
未來千年國度千年國度
性質神秘角色一世紀時被視為先知,二世紀後被視為人神
主要角色人類救主人類救主
狀態神人神人
常見描寫處女伊西斯抱著嬰兒荷魯斯聖母瑪利亞抱著嬰兒耶穌
名銜KRST(受膏者)Christ(受膏者)
其他名稱好牧人、神的羔羊、生命之糧、人子、道(the Word)、漁夫、篩穀者好牧人、神的羔羊、生命之糧、人子、道(the Word)、漁夫、篩穀者
星座記號與雙魚座相關、魚與雙魚座相關、魚
主要符號魚、聖甲蟲、藤蔓、牧人杖魚、聖甲蟲、藤蔓、牧人杖
審判時救贖的標準「我把麵包分給飢餓的人,水給口渴的人,衣服給裸露的人,船給遇船難的水手。」「因為我餓了,你們給我吃,渴了,你們給我喝;我作客旅,你們留我住;我赤身露體,你們給我穿……」[太25:35-36]

資料主要來源自:http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5e.htm

更詳盡資料見:http://www.masseiana.org/aeapp.htm
支持鼓勵每位離教者
Matt 13:24 耶穌又設個比喻對他們說、天國好像人撒好種在田裡.
及至人睡覺的時候、有仇敵來、將稗子撒在麥子裡、就走了。
到長苗吐穗的時候、稗子也顯出來。
田主的僕人來告訴他說、主阿、你不是撒好種在田裡麼、從那裡來的稗子呢。
主人說、這是仇敵作的。僕人說、你要我們去薅出來麼。
主人說、不必、恐怕薅稗子、連麥子也拔出來。
容這兩樣一齊長、等著收割.當收割的時候、我要對收割的人說、先將稗子薅出來、捆成捆、留著燒.惟有麥子、要收在倉裡。

《大寶積經卷第一百一十三》
迦葉。是名沙門求利。迦葉。云何稗沙門。迦葉。
譬如麥田中生稗麥。其形似麥不可分別。
爾時田夫作如是念。謂此稗麥盡是好麥。
後見穟生爾乃知非。不得名言一切是麥。迦葉。
如是稗沙門在於眾中。似是持戒有德行者。
施主見時謂盡是沙門。
而彼癡人實非沙門言是沙門。非梵行人自言梵行。
先來敗壞離於持戒。亦不入眾數。
於佛法中無智慧命當墮惡道。猶如稗麥在好麥中。
爾時天龍鬼神有天眼者。見彼癡人墮於地獄。
見已各相謂言。此是癡人先似沙門行不善法。
今當墮於大地獄中。
從今已後終不能得沙門德行及沙門果。猶如稗麥在好麥中。迦葉
http://www.cbeta.org/result/normal/T11/0310_113.htm
de omnibus dubitandum
回覆 3# 沙文


    謝謝,讓我先整理一下。因人們好像對2樓荷魯斯和父神奧西里斯混了在一起,要多參考文獻再整理。
回覆 3# 沙文


    同埋麻煩提供基督教對家資料(即大寶積經卷)既大約出現時間,咁先有理由指出係邊個抄邊個丫嘛。
有關文獻指古埃及神之間屬性互換,所以奧西里斯、荷魯斯等都可混在一起。
支持鼓勵每位離教者
回覆 5# 抽刀斷水

according to wiki, 上座部佛教話《大寶積經》起源於大眾部(大乘佛教的前身)的分支制多部,屬南傳佛教經典, 即是大概在2nd 結集之後, 400BCE左右


History[edit]
According to the Nikāyasaṅgraha (a Theravādin text), the Ratnakūṭa Sūtra was composed by the "Andhakas", meaning the Mahāsāṃghika Caitika schools of the Āndhra region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma ... 1%B9%ADa_S%C5%ABtra
咪就係,除非識得時光倒流,否則邊個抄邊個,好明顯啦係咪?
支持鼓勵每位離教者
回覆 8# 抽刀斷水

公元前2世紀孔雀王朝曾有佛教團在埃及希臘及中東等地傳教, 所以猶太佬係有可能接觸過《大寶積經》

    https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E ... 4.E6.8E.A5.E8.A7.B8
帖子 2# 列舉的資料,在 抽刀斷水 的建議下,我補充一下個人的想法,互相交流,以免被人誤導。

(1) 那些資料,沒有提供資料來源,無法追溯至原始銘文或浮雕,真確性成疑。

(2) 本人從未見過研究古代近東文獻,研究新約的學者提出過同樣的資料。

(3) Osiris, Isis, Horus 都是神,Isis 的丈夫是 Osiris,受孕生 Horus,如何談得上「處女產子」?表中第一項已經是老作。

事件 / 特徵荷魯斯耶穌
受孕處女女神[有爭議]人類處女(聖母)


(4) Osiris 被 Seth 殺害後,Horus 還未出生,如何令父親 Osiris 復活?表中「令死人復活」一項又是老作。

事件 / 特徵荷魯斯耶穌
令死人復活令父親奧西里斯復活令好友拉撒路復活


(5) 多年前,我曾經去過埃及 Philae 的 Isis 神廟,Edfu 的 Horus 神廟實地觀察,完全沒有聽聞表中所列舉的事項,從未見過 Horus 被釘十字架的浮雕……。Horus 的神話傳說,完全不是那樣的脈絡。

另外順便一提,多年前有人流傳,舊約的人物有幾百歲,那些歲數正是抄襲埃及王朝的更替年期。我約略查過根本沒有這回事,是一些下流的人編造出來的謊言。
(6) Horus 有妻有兒,原作者沒有提及,我有理由懷疑原作者的誠信。

-------------------------

Osiris, Isis, Horus 與基督教有關的敘述只有:

(1) Isis 手抱 Horus,成為 Mary 手抱 Jesus 的造像。
(2) Osiris 死而復活,在陰間審判死人。
十分感謝Gauss版友的補充。

(1) 資料主要來源自網站Religious Tolerance網站,據我所知這個網站沒有偏幫任何單一宗教。該連結的資料來源為:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5d.htm#ref

我承認無法一一就有關References找出對應原始銘文。但該網就列舉雙方的辯論:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5c.htm

當中一句十分現實,看來再深入看下去是十分傷神的事(當然對專業有薪護教的人或是有薪專門研究宗教比較的學者來說,就是他們的職業):

Unfortunately, reading these information sources can be frustrating. Many of them contain statements like "Horus was crucified" or "There is no record of Horus being crucified," or "I have found no evidence for..." The reader is left hanging.

(3) 看過有關資料,指Osiris被分屍而死後,Isis化身為鷹以他的陰莖受孕。這情況實在無法以正常人類性交的概念類比。

正如耶和華也可化成風使瑪利亞受孕,同樣顛覆了正常人類產子必不為處女的定律。

(4) Osiris死後被製成木乃伊,待Horus成長成為新王後,他施法使其父親復活。這是看完以下冗長的維基作出的總結:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os ... urrection_of_Osiris

(2)(5) 我是業餘中的業餘,未作出學術文獻探討,也沒作實地考察,沒有資格回應你的反駁。

(6) 提及Horus有妻兒有何作用?
支持鼓勵每位離教者
這裡有人引用Pyramid Text與基督教作比較,有空可參考:

Hey guys, last week I took the liberty of going through the Pyramid Texts, and found many similarities to Christianity in them, and also a few interesting notes.

Keep in mind the Pyramid Texts were written as late as 2300 BC, and some scholars say that it was at least 3000 BC, so a matter of who copied who is not even a question now.

and here we go:

92. 61c. To say: Osiris N., take to thyself the eye of Horus, put it to thy face. To lift up one bread, one beer.

This is similar to the ritual of 'taking bread and wine'. While, I understand wine is not beer, same token too, they are both alcohol.

63a. Wash thyself, N.; open thy mouth with the eye of Horus.
63b. Summons, thy ka, like Osiris, that he may protect thee from all anger of the dead.


"washing" would be similar to Baptism. The "Ka" is similar to the "holy ghost", the unseen protector from evil (anger of the dead here)

132a. N. was conceived in the night; N. was born in the night.
132b. He belongs, to the Followers of Rē‘, who are before the morning star.

Just wanted to show that people were referencing the Morning Star at least 2000 years before the bible. So, where do you think the phrase originated? Obvious answer

137a. Go after (pursue) thy sun (days); purify thyself,
137b. (for) thy bones are (those of) female-falcons, goddesses, who are in heaven,

There is one bible verse with a reference to female angels Zecharia 5:9 King James Bible
Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind [was] in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.
Now, I know a stork is not a falcon, but the point is they are both women with bird wings. On a side note, I read that this bible verse is the only one in which the angels are female. Can someone confirm or refute this?

145a. No seed of a god, which belongs to him, goes to ruin; so thou who belongest to him wilt not go to ruin.
"That whoever beleivieth in him shall not perish" sounds VERY similar to me.

237a. To say: The serpent which came forth from the earth is fallen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen.
Serpent is what satan is thought to be in the OT, and he is "fallen" as well. Hmmmm

275a. To say: He is pure, who was purified in the Marsh of Reeds.
275b. Rē‘ is purified in the Marsh of Reeds.
275c. He is pure, who was purified in the Marsh of Reeds.
275d. This N. is purified in the Marsh of Reeds.

Another similarity to baptism.

357a. The sister of N. is Sothis; the mother of N. is the morning star.
Ah-ha! The Morning Star is Feminine!

422a. To say: Punish the serpent, Kbbhḥrwbi,
422b. O lion of phti, O lion of ptti, the phti (and) ptti.
422c. Give to me now, ḥrwtwbś, meat, now, one pot.
422d. Go, go, serpent, serpent.

Lion / Serpent motif. The Lion of Judah anyone?

525a. To say: The double doors of heaven are open; the double doors of ḳbḥ.w are open
The Pearly Gates?

990a. Rē‘, impregnate the body of Nut with the seed of the spirit, which shall be in her.
Here we are ladies and gentlemen... Ra is the top god, whom impregnates Nut with the seed of the spirit, very similar to Mary being impregnated with the Spirit.

Next verse is far off from the verse above, so to say if they are in relation to each other or not is kind of difficult. I beleive Nut had a few children.

1082b. Nut has given birth to (it) as her daughter, the morning star.
Here again we see the Morning Star is feminine. How did it get changed to be male in the Bible? This is highly interesting to me, because the Morning Star is Venus, and Venus is a feminine planet, as we all know from the Greek Goddess Aphrodite. These references to the Morning Star being feminine also negate the supposition that Satan and Lucifer (the morning star) are the same entity, as Satan is SOLELY referred to as HE. Now the issue of Jesus being the feminine Morning Star arises. :? Let's just move on from that for now...

11199a. Stand up, Osiris,
1199b. commend N. to those who are on "Śḫm is joyous" north of the Marsh of Offerings,
1199c. like as thou didst commend Horus to Isis the day that thou didst impregnate her,

I have included this verse to show that I am an equal-opportunity researcher. These versus prove that Horus was not born of a holy spirit, so yes that whole Isis Osiris Horus bit is out the window. Now, we will need to focus on Nut and the verse above for the correlations.

1021b. my son, N., is come in peace, so says she, Nut
I backed up a bit to get this verse to show that Nut also had bore a son. This will be expounded on more in depth later as it will be a lengthy explanation.

1279c. he is accursed; he is one who eats his (own) body.
This is interesting as at the Last Supper, Jesus said that the bread represented his body and the wine his blood, and he ate of the Bread. According to these texts, he who eats his own body is accursed. Hmmm okay, interesting. rubs chin while pondering

1416c. It is grievous (?) for thy body, O Nut, because of the divine seed, which shall be in thee (or, in thy mother).
1417a. N., this one, he is the divine seed, which shall be in thy mother, Nut.

So the Divine Seed in Nut is this N. In Christianity, Jesus is the Divine Seed. So, it seems that in the Christian Mythos, Jesus has taken the spot of what the Pharaoh was in the Pyramid Texts. Interesting to note that Jesus is reffered to as the "King".

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=146269
支持鼓勵每位離教者
讓我補充一下這篇所謂的「辯論」,以免被人誤導。
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5c.htm

Horus 是否處女所生?

Acharya S. 引述 Joseph McCabe,兩人都是作家。
內容全是沒有根據的一面之詞。
Her theories have received negative commentaries from academic scholars.
她的理論得到學者的負面評價。
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S

網主引述了一段 James Frazer 所寫的資料。
這段資料完全沒有提及 Horus,
與「Horus 是否處女所生」完全無關。
(不知網主引來有什麼作用)

Ward Gasque 向20位當代埃及學家進行調查,
詢問他們「Horus 是否處女所生」。
10位回覆,他們一致同意沒有證據 Horus 是處女所生。

Horus 是否有12門徒?

Glenn Miller 表示他找到參考關於4門徒,
找到參考關於16門徒,
找到參考關於不知數目的鐵匠,
卻找不到參考關於12門徒。

網主稱,耶穌的12門徒,與以色列12支派相配。
(不知網主說來有什麼作用)

Ward Gasque 的調查,
沒有證據 Horus 有12門徒。

Horus 有沒有被釘十字架?

網主敘述了羅馬人釘十字架的程序。

網主稱埃及沒有羅馬人釘十字架的方式,
網主稱一些消息來源指 Horus 被綁於一棵樹。
(網主沒有提供消息來源)

Glen M. Miller 稱;
找不到參考關於 Horus 的死亡,
找不到參考關於 Horus 的墳墓。

------------------------------------------

十分可笑,這些東西算是什麼「辯論」?
Jhn 1.1         In the beginning was the Word,  
Gen 1.1        In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

約翰哭音的beginning 同創世紀的beginning分別譯為"太初", "起初"

Jhn 1.1 太初有道,道与神同在
Gen 起初神創造天地 。

「太初」乃是道家術語, 被基督教盜用:

《太上老君开天经》混元之时,混元一治万劫,至于百成,百成亦八十一万年,而有太初。
de omnibus dubitandum
十分可笑,這些東西算是什麼「辯論」?
Gauss 發表於 2015/12/31 21:39



    在各種偏頗的資料來源中,能找到這種相對中立的平台,而且還列舉了對陣雙方的連結讓讀者自行觀看,不是預設了某立場然後一面倒攻擊另一方,如果你也有認真找過類似資料,就知道這算是十分罕見,亦沒有什麼可笑之處。
回覆 15# 沙文


    它拿「道」字而不是用「字」譯The Word,就知道在翻譯上取用了道教的詞彙己用啦。
Matt 13:24 耶穌又設個比喻對他們說、天國好像人撒好種在田裡.
及至人睡覺的時候、有仇敵來、將稗子撒在麥 ...
沙文 發表於 2015/12/29 05:09


    ... in his first estate child-Horus was the sower of the seed, and in his second character at the second coming he is the reaper of the harvest.  Thence comes the parable of the sower.  In the pictures to the Ritual Horus is the sower who goes forth to sow the seed in the field of his father.  And when he sows the wheat the enemy that is Sut the power of darkness, comes by night and sows the field with tares and thorns and thistles, it being his work to undo all the good that Horus does. (Gerald Massey, Ancient Egypt: Light Of The World, p805)

如果找到原文,就可比較荷魯斯vs佛陀vs耶穌了。
如果找到原文,就可比較荷魯斯vs佛陀vs耶穌了。
抽刀斷水 發表於 2016/1/1 15:04


你指什麼原文?誰的原文?
回覆 19# Gauss


    對應Ancient Egypt: Light Of The World一書中描述Horus作為撒好種者的有關銘文。
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