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立即停止資助基督教組織

        版主抽刀斷水要求停播《福言語》、《地球深度行》等宗教宣傳節目,因為節目令他吃不下飯。
        播放傳教節目,還不是最危害社會的。更危險的,是用香港人的錢,資助基督教組織辦學及主持福會服務。這著毒招,是當年殖民地政府的殺手鐧,「宰割我天下而敵不出刀,烹醢我天下而敵不出薪」禍害卻是無窮的(基督教在歷史上對人類造成的禍害也無需多言),九七收回香港,早應廢止。
        試問一個「凡有氣息的盡行滅絕」、殺完了異己、親人,還有自己可殺的宗教:
       「你們不要想我來,是叫地上太平。我來,並不是叫地上太平,乃是叫地上動刀兵。因為我來,是叫人與父親生疏、女兒與母親生疏、媳婦與婆婆生疏。人的仇敵,就是自己家裏的人。」《馬太》10:34
「人到我這裏來,若不恨(中文版篡改為「愛我過於愛」)自己的父母、妻子、兒女、弟兄、姐妹和自己的性命,就不能作我的門徒。」《路加》14:26
    「弟兄要把弟兄、父親要把兒子,送到死地。兒女要與父母為敵,害死他們。」《馬太》10:21
    「愛惜自己生命的,就失喪生命;在這世上恨惡自己生命的,就要保守生命到永生。」《約翰》12:25
        信它講和平、講愛,實是大呆子。一神教對待異己(甚至自己),不是你死,便是我亡。武林爭霸,勝敗雙方,尚有從屬關係,一神教卻絕不容存在中間地帶。
        資助基督教組織辦學、主持社會服務,無異於讓它們毒害純真的學子,擴張勢力,而且幫它們豢餋一大批吃教者助紂為虐。一神教的蔓延,最掩嘴竊笑的是英國佬(還有美國佬等等想害國人者)。
        對付邪教,除了要學法國,立法禁止它們在公共場所宣傳外,最有效的,是斷絕它們的經濟來源。傳媒還須負上社會責任,向公眾報道邪教的活動情況。並且恆久在學校的公民課內設立課程,讓學生討論邪教、尤其是基督教的危害性。
        本人在此嚴正要求港府,為了社會安定、為了後代子孫,立即取銷對基督教組織的任何資助!

[ 本帖最後由 旁觀者 於 2008-4-14 13:15 編輯 ]
如果你看過政府有多少人是靠教會上位吃飯的話
你還會認為這種要求會被考慮嗎?(苦笑)
冷靜D,英國自家也不太信基督教了。

法國有立法禁止它們在公共場所宣傳嗎? (Why then, is Notre Dame is there?)

I think you mean Seperation of Church and State which means the state do not support any religion for religion sake.  However, many of the church is still hold by French government and is freely available to the religious bodies.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-27 17:16 編輯 ]
剩係停支助唔夠架,收宗教稅先最實際.

首先,要各教會申報資產.

跟手就要求各教會安裝電子奉獻箱,有根有據.一切場外奉獻被視為收規/洗黑錢,收同俾既都拉.稅率跟公司利得稅.賣旗/籌款既收入一樣要交.攞物資sponsor賣錢或自用亦同樣要交.所有教牧要考牌,要交考試費,唔做得由教會求其話邊個係就係.

回復 4# Jom 的帖子

到時咪又有大把基督徒上街, 話我地迫害佢地ka la...
雖然收宗教稅係可以打擊基督教的方法, 但係基於宗教自由, 會有好多人反對(包括我)收宗教稅lor...

回復 5# weakest 的帖子

而家無話唔自由呀...自由同收錢係兩件事喎

我地唔好開口埋口就話打擊先,咁呢個塺會用者自負之嘛.而且又係話無錢既唔信得,有稅收係因為有人奉獻之嘛.咁無可否認宗教經已係一盤生意.但毫無節制咁任得佢無止境發展又毫無社會責任咁唔掂喎.而且就係因為宗教自由,有宗教信仰既用佢地奉獻既一部份去養吓班可能無宗教信仰既狗官呀,市民呀,窮人呀咁都好吖...乜宗教自由包括無信仰既咩?唔得咁架嘛...

如果唔係香港取消咗遺產稅,我真係覺得係一代教牧/主教移交教產既時候要收添呀.因為佢地係宗教團體,所以係唔應該賺錢既,咁係太平盛世,樓價係二十年內既波幅幾乎係一定向上既.咁如果教產成為咗賺錢物件既時候交番吓稅,咁可以控制到教產會無止境咁放大囉.影響物價架.

回復 2# Nomad 的帖子

若是真事,那麼便應了十八世紀法國唯物主義哲學家讓・梅葉Jean Meslier的話:
        「宗教(基督教)甚至支持最壞的政府,而政府也同樣庇護最荒謬的、最愚蠢的宗教(基督教)。」

回復 3# dye 的帖子

「正清網」2002.8.13《述評:美國為什麼總成為邪教頭目的樂土》:
        「去年六月,法國國民議會以多數票通過了懲治邪教法草案。……草案特別強調不得在學校、醫療機構等地方從事任何邪教宣傳。」

回復 8# 旁觀者 的帖子

Christianity is NOT considered a cult in France.

have a law like this in HK will have no effect to the Christian in HK.
---------

Please note that it is not "CONSIDERED".  I am in no means endorsing the view that "Christianity is not a cult" myself.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-27 20:01 編輯 ]
贊成!同時亦應立即取消教會自動成為稅局認可的慈善團體。
支持鼓勵每位離教者

回復 6# Jom 的帖子

對我o黎講, 之前的"宗教稅" 係指直接對教徙收稅. 這是我所反對的.
1. 咁會令人覺得無宗教自由(用收稅令D人唔去信教, 仲唔係侵犯自由?) (P.S.: 作為"自由", D人應該有權唔去行駛這權利, 即係唔信任何教(但這唔代表無信仰係宗教))
2. 難以收稅. 因為難以確認邊個係教徙, 邊個唔係教徙. 因為人人都可以講大話"避稅". 而我在呢度開咗account 之後, 有去過教堂(因為當同friend (they are Christians) 聚聚), 但唔代表我又信番教. 而且, 濕完水都可以離教la (唔係咁, 我地仲可以在這吹水mei?). 仲有, D人的宗教信仰可以話變就變(仲可以變得好快...), 咁點知邊D人計入去稅基wor. 人地公司會有盤好清楚的數, 令政府知收幾多稅. 但就係無方法知道收幾多"宗教稅", 同埋向邊個收"宗教稅"lor. 所以, 呢個絕對唔係一個"好"的稅lor. 人地關心妍忽然話自己離教, 唔去交稅, 但係日日去教堂, 又話去教堂只係探D牧師, D人都吹佢唔脹bor...

但係, 如果政府直接向D教會收稅, 我又唔反對wor. 要所有教會註冊, 唔係就當晒係邪教 (政府好似都想打擊D"邪教" la). 跟住就每間註冊教會都收稅 (D教會都好似有番盤數俾人睇...). 咁咪ok lor. 香港政府俾你o係呢度插旗收o靚, 咁D教會俾番D稅都好合理掛...仲有, 又唔駛怕D教徙不滿, 因為教會根本無可能屈D人捐多D$. 而且, 講番句"上主的歸上主, 凱撒的歸凱撒", D教會仲夠膽駁咀? 咁就唔駛恰D弱小教徙lor...

By the way,  I agree that the government should NOT subsidy certain 教會

[ 本帖最後由 weakest 於 2008-2-27 23:44 編輯 ]
原帖由 weakest 於 2008-2-27 18:10 發表
到時咪又有大把基督徒上街, 話我地迫害佢地ka la...
雖然收宗教稅係可以打擊基督教的方法, 但係基於宗教自由, 會有好多人反對(包括我)收宗教稅lor...


但係基於宗教自由, 會有好多人反對(包括我)收宗教稅lor...




sorry , just only an other set of junks4fun ,

[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-2-29 13:31 編輯 ]
原帖由 weakest 於 2008-2-27 23:41 發表
回復 6#  Jom 的帖子                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        對我o黎講, 之前的"宗教稅" 係指直接對教徙收稅. 這是我所反對的.
1. 咁會令人覺得無宗教自由(用收稅令D人唔去信教, 仲唔係侵犯自由?) (P.S.: 作為"自由", D人應該有權唔去行駛這權利, 即係唔信任何教(但這唔代表無信仰係宗教))
2. 難以收稅. 因為難以確認邊個係教徙, 邊個唔係教徙. 因為人人都可以講大話"避稅". 而我在呢度開咗account 之後,有去過教堂(因為當同friend (they are Christians) 聚聚), 但唔代表我又信番教. 而且, 濕完水都可以離教la(唔係咁, 我地仲可以在這吹水mei?). 仲有, D人的宗教信仰可以話變就變(仲可以變得好快...), 咁點知邊D人計入去稅基wor.人地公司會有盤好清楚的數, 令政府知收幾多稅. 但就係無方法知道收幾多"宗教稅", 同埋向邊個收"宗教稅"lor. 所以,呢個絕對唔係一個"好"的稅lor. 人地關心妍忽然話自己離教, 唔去交稅, 但係日日去教堂, 又話去教堂只係探D牧師,D人都吹佢唔脹bor...

但係, 如果政府直接向D教會收稅, 我又唔反對wor. 要所有教會註冊, 唔係就當晒係邪教 (政府好似都想打擊D"邪教" la).跟住就每間註冊教會都收稅 (D教會都好似有番盤數俾人睇...). 咁咪ok lor. 香港政府俾你o係呢度插旗收o靚,咁D教會俾番D稅都好合理掛...仲有, 又唔駛怕D教徙不滿, 因為教會根本無可能屈D人捐多D$. 而且, 講番句"上主的歸上主,凱撒的歸凱撒", D教會仲夠膽駁咀? 咁就唔駛恰D弱小教徙lor...

By the way,  I agree that the government should NOT subsidy certain 教會


sorry ,
there do b various kinds of church taxes , charged upon individual persons  
the many many nearly uncountably many $$$$$$$$$ go to churches for ever every year
: ::::::::::
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax
Church tax                                        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia                                                                                                Jump to: navigation, search

Church tax
is a tax imposed on members of some religious congregations in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Austria and some parts of Switzerland.

Germany

About 70% of church revenues do come from church tax. This is about 8.5 billion (in 2002).
Article 137 of the Weimar Constitution of 1919 and article 140 of the Grundgesetz of 1949 are the legal basis for this practice.
In Germany, on the basis of tax regulations passed by thecommunities and within the limits set by state laws, communities may either
  • require the taxation authorities of the state to collect the fees from the members on the basis of income tax assessment (then, theauthorities withhold a collection fee), or
  • choose to collect the church tax themselves.
In the first case, membership in the community is entered onto a tax document (Lohnsteuerkarte) which employees must surrender to their employers for the purpose of withholding tax on paid income. If membership in a tax-collecting religiouscommunity is entered on the document, the employer must withhold church tax prepayments from the income of the employee in addition to othertax prepayments. In connection with the final annual income taxassessment, the state revenue authorities also finally assess the church tax owed. In the case of self-employed persons or of unemployed taxpayers, state revenue authorities collect prepayments on the churchtax together with prepayments on the income tax.
If, however, religious communities choose to collect church taxthemselves, they may demand that the tax authorities reveal taxation data of their members to calculate the contributions and prepaymentsowed. In particular, some smaller communities (e.g. the JewishCommunity of Berlin) choose to collect taxes themselves to save collection fees the government would charge otherwise.
Collection of church tax may be used to cover any church-related expenses such as founding institutions and foundations or payingministers.
The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church.People who are not member of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it. Members of a religious community under public lawmay formally declare their wish to leave the community to state (notreligious) authorities. With such a declaration, the obligation to pay church taxes ends. Some communities refuse to administer marriages andburials of (former) members who had declared to leave it.
The money flow of state and churches is distinct at all levels of the procedures. The church tax is not meant to be a way for the stateto directly support churches, but since expenses for church tax are fully deductible in fact such support occurs on a somewhat large scale.
The church tax is historically rooted in the pre-Christian Germaniccustom where the chief of the tribe was directly responsible for themaintenance of priests and religious cults. During the Christianizationof Western Europe, this custom was adopted by the Christian churches(Arian and Catholic) in the concept of "Eigenkirchen" (churches ownedby the landlord) which stood in strong contrast to the central church organization of the Roman Catholic church. Despite the resulting medieval conflict between emperor and pope, the concept of church maintenance by the ruler remained the accepted custom in most Western European countries. In Reformation times, the local princes in Germanybecame officially heads of the church in Protestant areas and werelegally responsible for the maintenance of churches. Not until the 19thcentury were the finances of churches and state regulated to a point where the churches became financially independent. At this point thechurch tax was introduced to replace the state benefits the churcheshad obtained previously.
Taxpayers, whether Roman Catholic, Protestant or members of other tax-collecting communities, pay between 8% (in Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg) and 9% (in the rest of the country) of their income tax to the church or other community to which they belong.

Denmark
Main article Church of Denmark

The members of Folkekirkenpay a church tax, which varies between municipalities, but can be as large as 1.51%. The tax is generally in the vicinity of 1% of thetaxable income. Even people who are not members of the church finance with normal taxes as it is part of the government budget. [[[[[[[[[ my own take : ::::: ?????????!!!!!!!!! ]]]]]]]]]

Sweden

The members of Svenska kyrkan pay church tax, which varies between municipalities. Church and state are separated as of 2000, however the burial tax (begravningsavgift) is paid by everyone regardless of membership. [[[[[[[[[ my own take : :::::::::: ?????????!!!!!!!!! ]]]]]]]]]
In a recent development, the Swedish government has agreed to continue collecting from individual taxpayers the annual payment that has always gone to the church. But now the tax will be an optional checkoff box on the tax return. The government will allocate the money collected to Catholic, Muslim, Jewish and other faiths as well as the Lutherans, with each taxpayer directing where his or her taxes shouldgo.

Austria

Church tax is compulsory in Austria and Catholics can be sued by the Church for not paying it. Anyone who wants to stop paying it has todeclare in writing, at their local municipal council, that they are leaving the Church. They are then crossed off the Church registers and can no longer receive the sacraments. The tax amounts to about 1% ofthe income.

Switzerland

There is no official state church in Switzerland. However, all the 26 cantons (states) financially support at least one of the three traditional denominations-- Roman Catholic, Old Catholic (in Switzerland Christ Catholic), or Evangelical Reformed--with funds collected through taxation. Each canton has its own regulations regarding the relationship between church and state. In some cantons, the church tax (up to 2.3%) is voluntary but in others anindividual who chooses not to contribute to church tax may formally have to leave the church. In some cantons private companies are unable to avoid payment of the church tax. [[[[[ my own take : : ????!!!!! ]]]]

Finland

All members of either the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland and the Finnish Orthodox Church (the two state churches of Finland) pay an income-based church tax of between 1% and 2.25%, depending on the municipality.
Formerly, to stop paying church tax, one had to formally leave thechurch by giving written notice and waiting during an allowance of timefor reflection. This requirement has since been removed, and currently a written statement to the church suffices. It is also possible toleave the church via a web page [1].

Iceland

Taxpayers in Iceland are obligated to pay a "Culture Tax" to either the Church of Iceland (Lutheran) or the University of Iceland.

See alsoRetrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax"

[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-2-28 09:06 編輯 ]
原帖由 dye 於 2008-2-27 17:09 發表
冷靜D,英國自家也不太信基督教了。

法國有立法禁止它們在公共場所宣傳嗎? (Why then, is Notre Dame is there?)

I think you mean Seperation of Church and State which means the state do not support any religi ...


Separation of Church ?? really ??

according your humble servant's humble opinions ,
sorry ,
with the concept of state church + the church-tax-$$$$$$$$$ going2churches ,
me seems ,
the separation of Church from state , may not b so .........

sorry again
原帖由 抽刀斷水 於 2008-2-27 23:10 發表
贊成!同時亦應立即取消教會自動成為稅局認可的慈善團體


o k ,
could any 1 teach me how to establish an other 教會 ?? i want2do it as many as possible ,
原帖由 Nomad 於 2008-2-27 15:50 發表
如果你看過政府有多少人是靠教會上位吃飯的話
你還會認為這種要求會被考慮嗎?(苦笑)


complete agreed ,
----------------------------------------------------------------
there may b uncomfortably many Christians inside of the the top management of hkgovernment ,
with 憎当奴 as the toppest ,
v may b literrally under a Christian-dominated government
+
endorsed by our dear central government of our motherland , China
------------------
+ + + + + , + that “疑似”   變身福音電視臺 ,
v may b under some invisible 潛移默化 Christian-co-operation under-the-table ,
----------------------------------------------------------------

`````朝中有人好辦事''''

[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-2-28 09:30 編輯 ]
The French policy, as I understand it is that

a) The church get register, and it has a chance to get tex extemption.   But while getting the extemption, they also need to disclose their financial situation to the government

(Fair and square IF we want to support religions)

b) The church do not get register.  Nothing happen.  The government did nothing to them.  It is just like a hobby club.

(So call religious freedom)

c) The church get noted by the government as a cult (how they classify it is a mystery to me), and the government will crack it down.

(Bottom line measure)

回復 17# dye 的帖子

Good Policy!
支持鼓勵每位離教者

回復 17# dye 的帖子

但係b同c的分別只在於government的judgement, 會唔會有abuse of power? 例如, 俾某些Christian dominate 的government可以話Muslim 係cult都無辦法呢? 如果要全部宗教都register(否則全部當邪教), 好像會明確D. 但係government 會唔會又可以有abuse of power, 唔俾人register呢? 諗得好亂...
原帖由 weakest 於 2008-3-1 05:29 發表
但係b同c的分別只在於government的judgement, 會唔會有abuse of power? 例如, 俾某些Christian dominate 的government可以話Muslim 係cult都無辦法呢? 如果要全部宗教都register(否則全部當邪教), 好像會明確D. 但係 ...


>>>> 俾某些Christian dominate 的government可以話Muslim 係cult都無辦法呢

the government-dominated-by-me would also b certain to make sure to 話Muslim 係cult ,

but ,
Muslim must 辦法 in 1 way or an other to go after me
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