dye

如果去偽科學的周兆祥網站，倒不如喝瓶奶好了。

內地文化本是如此，要包容，毒奶能包容嗎？

我待在工廠的感覺是，人（心態）不行，制度也不行。在中國買東西，只能買一些「明明白白」的。不然的話只能自求多福。

dye

人家歐州人喜歡牧羊、牧牛嘛（和被「牧養」，做羔羊）。能喝牛奶是現代貨，是長不大的孩子，不能喝才是原汁原味的基因。

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050602012109.htm

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-22 21:19 編輯 ]

dye

左右之分始於法國，因為保皇派習慣坐在主席右則。往往政治是歨中間，只有在比較才明顯。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lef ... history_of_the_term

也有分ECONOMIC上左和社會自由上的左。

用今天式來說，BUSH在ECONOMIC上是右因為他支持小政府，大社會。（名義上）但他大量用錢去制造就業，行為本就左得很。相比香港在通脹是，不睬不理的態度，香港在這是名符其實的右。（要看ECONOMIC左派請移玉步至歐洲法國）

在社會自由上卻是左，因為他主張加强控制人民私生活。（比如愛國法、反同性戀）但在大氣氛下美國是右派。例如言論、集社自由，買槍也有自由。一般說中國左，通常就是指這方面。
-------------------------

我想簡單來說，左就是革命、求變（通常是草根），右就是保守（通常是社會上既得利益者）

共產之為左因為他口號是從資本主義中革命，但革命成功後，這左便變得不合適……（法國那時也一樣，那天坐在右面的朋友今天都自稱「左仔」了）

------------------------
PS 在TED 上有左VS右的道德分柝。

其中左仔道德和右仔道德同時强調
1) 亙不傷害/愛人如己
2) 公平/公正

右仔道德卻另加了三條
3) 親疏有別/团結精神
4)　尊重權威/崇尚才華
５）　心靈/精神上的潔淨

我想特別指出３／４令人保守，５令人迷信。說得出這，我其實也傾左的……（年輕而不傾左的人無情，年老而不傾右的人天真）

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-27 10:50 編輯 ]

dye

The study is conducted currently.

The moral value is 2 face of the same coin.  The ingroup/outgroup morality foster solidity in a society and war at the same time.

When Bush said "If you are not with us, you are against us"  It is exactly using this morality that leftist typically found it bullshit (and rightist will nod their head)

-------------------
According to Legco data listed on Economic Journal, nearly ALL government proposal is passed in Legco.  (It does not matter what the media how the political party is bloacking everything all the time.)  

HK after 2007 is essentially pro-government.
----------

First time I heard a country will outsource its health and safety agency to a single city.  I wonder if you find it in the HK annual.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-28 08:53 編輯 ]

dye

My bad, it is a typo.  Since 1997, most of what the government proposed has been passed by Legco.

You can check the record to confirm if Economic Journals report it correctly.

"香港特別行政區第三屆立法會由60人組成，其中30位議員經分區直接選舉產生，其餘30位經功能團體選舉產生。 "

There seems to no SINGLE party owning a significant enough voter's base to counter this bias to pro-government.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-28 11:33 編輯 ]

dye

Summary:

Total
with no party = 15
pro government = 27
Aganst goverment = 19

Within the functional group"
No party = 12
Pro government = 13
Against government = 5
* Guess who those 12 will side when it comes to voting time?  Remember, these people are usually people with vested interest with the government!

------------------

范徐麗泰 None
田北俊 - 自由黨 pro government
霍震霆 - None
何俊仁 - 民主黨 Against government
譚耀宗 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
何鍾泰 - 泛聯盟 Pro government
石禮謙 - none
李卓人 - 香港職工會聯盟 Against government
李鳳英 - none
李柱銘 - 民主黨 Against government
張宇人 - 自由黨 pro government
李國寶 - None
陳偉業 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
李華明 - 民主黨 Against government
馮檢基 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
呂明華 - None
余若薇 - 公民黨 Against government
吳靄儀 - 公民黨 Against government
方剛 - 自由黨 pro government
周梁淑怡 - 自由黨 pro government
王國興 - 香港工會聯合會 pro government
涂謹申 -  民主黨 Against government
李永達 - 民主黨 Against government
張文光 - 民主黨 Against government
李國英 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
陳婉嫻 - 香港工會聯合會 pro government
李國麟 - none
陳智思 - none
林偉強 - none
陳鑑林 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
林健鋒 -  自由黨 pro government
梁劉柔芬 -  自由黨 pro government
梁君彥 -  自由黨 pro government
梁耀忠 - 街坊工友服務處 Against government
梁家傑 - 公民黨 Against government
單仲偕 - 民主黨 Against government
梁國雄 - 四五行動 Against government
黃宜弘 - none
郭家麒 - none
黃容根 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
張超雄 - 公民黨 Against government
曾鈺成 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
張學明 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
楊孝華 -  自由黨 pro government
黃定光 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
楊森 - 民主黨 Against government
湯家驊 - 公民黨 Against government
劉千石- 香港工會聯合會 pro government
詹培忠 - none
劉江華  - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
劉秀成 - none
劉皇發 - 自由黨 pro government
鄭經翰 - None
劉健儀 - 自由黨 pro government
鄺志堅 -  香港工會聯合會 pro government
劉慧卿 - 前 Against government
譚香文 - 公民黨 Against government
蔡素玉 - 民主建港協進聯盟 pro government
陳方安生 - none
鄭家富 - 民主黨 Against government

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-28 12:18 編輯 ]

dye

In that case, wait another 2 years.  We will see if the government will function better with Legco fully functioning as check and balance.

But for the time from 1997-2008 so far, it is the governemnt that is leading the society.  If the government want something to pass, it is very likely to pass (unless it is so ridiculous that they have an internal strife.. like Bush new plan to save the economy)

dye

What is wrong with having an anti-trust law?

If the government want to pass a law, it can pass through the Legco regardless of what they do.  When the government is controlling the 'majority' of the Legco, what can they do?  

Make a law?  But it will not pass!

dye

It is a fact (from Economica Journal)  that most of the government's law passed.  Conspiracy theory?  

Speaking of which, if Mr Tung or Mr Tsang give a some much of a damn about popular vote, how can they stay so long?  Did you realize how LONG and you realize how dramatic a measure is taken to dragged Tung down?  (And Tung and Tsang is elected by 800 people committee, which again, is pro-government, pro-Beijing)

If Microsoft is not interested in playing fair, maybe it should stay in Singapore.  It is up to them to decide whether they should wait a bit to see the outcome or make a conclusion early on.  The sky will not fall without Microsoft.. we still have Lenovo!

-----------------------------------
Under basic law, HK do have religious freedom.

Even without religious body, there will still be a 淫審處 because it is a CULTURAL issue as much as a religious one.  The same shit is also there (even stronger) in secular China.  Any movie/TV drama with inappropriate content WILL be blacked in China.

If you are looking for total freedom, you are looking at an anarchy (something of a debate on the last HK chief executive debate)

-----------------------
Mind you again, the Liberal party alone is not enough to PASS or REJECT any law the government wanted.  They can all vote in one direction or the other and it will not affect the result as long as the government have an idea about it.

Anson Chen realize it after entering, so do Long Hair, and Cheng Da Pan.

For the previous analysis you already knows that the government holds the majority as long as they vote solidarily.  There are also couple of factors not so obvious
1) The Pan-democratic is splitted into many small groups.  Making a united front on small issue difficult.  Will Long hair really shake hands with member of Civil party while he publicly despises them (for being rich), umm?
2) The pro-government party has a higher attending rate in Legco  (They have the time!)
3) The government has a lot of resources.  Unlike US of A, Hk-er is generally politicall cold.  There is not much resource for pan-democratic group to work with, you can check the news and see for yourself the huge difference.  Quite the opposite, the pan-democratic members has a lure to 'switch side', either with bribe, or the splitted opinion within their voter base.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-29 22:06 編輯 ]

dye

淫審處是在公眾中招人的。如果限定有宗教人仕不能加入才叫「政教合一」（無神論）
香港媒體可信嗎？
一定程度的言論管制，是社會共識！中共言論管制最具爭議的言論管制不是他在家庭時段禁播ADULT VIDEO，而是管制「沒什麼特別的」政治言論。

只有一點選舉不公便跑了？MICROSOFT是天真?SINGAPORE選舉又怎公平？（你自以為知道我要求什麼選舉，那請告知，以便明白你的讀心術。）
引申下來香港的小偷也可以說「口口聲聲叫我不偷不搶,但你要要求的也不是公平選舉,而是宗教團體可以用政府資源買票討價的黑金政治」

美國教會登記為慈善團體免稅不？香港法例有那一條不是寫宗教而是特別寫基督教？

-----------------------
ESRB

"
Who decides which rating a game should get?
Each ESRB rating is based on the consensus of at least three specially trained raters who view content based on numerous criteria. Raters must be adults, and typically have experience with children through prior work experience, education or by being parents or caregivers themselves. They rate games on a full-time basis, although they may be assisted by part-time raters when necessary. While they are not required to have advanced skills as computer and video game players (since their job is to review content and determine its age-appropriateness, not to assess how challenging or entertaining a particular game is to play), they do gain or further develop these abilities since they are also required, time-permitting, to play the final version of games (after their release) when they are not busy assigning ratings. To eliminate the risk of outside or industry influence, the identities of ESRB raters are kept confidential, and they are not permitted to have any ties to or connections with any individuals or entities in the computer/video game industry. "

可沒說GAME RATER 不能是明光社的混蛋。問題是：ESBR的GAME RATER 是怎麼招來的? SPECIALLY TRAINED 又是怎麼TRAINED? 兒童工作者又會否有此社群的徧見？

----------------------------
HK BASIC LAW

"
Article 141
The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall not restrict the freedom of religious belief, interfere in the internal affairs of religious organizations or restrict religious activities which do not contravene the laws of the Region.
Religious organizations shall, in accordance with law, enjoy the rights to acquire, use, dispose of and inherit property and the right to receive financial assistance. Their previous property rights and interests shall be maintained and protected.
Religious organizations may, according to their previous practice, continue to run seminaries and other schools, hospitals and welfare institutions and to provide other social services.
Religious organizations and believers in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region may maintain and develop their relations with religious organizations and believers elsewhere.
"

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-30 09:49 編輯 ]

dye

在亞州，在家庭時段禁播ADULT VIDEO有多少人贊成？有多少人會贊成三四點「放學ICU」的時候播出三級的「金瓶梅」？你再看看神州內「色戎」也要剪接才能播！是什麽令你認為在美國行得通的在文化不同的中國也行得通？你認為SECULAR的大陸為什麼比十個淫審處更嚴?為何在淫審處的調查內他們理念又得到普遍支持？

教會不抽稅是偏幫教會，教會抽稅是針對教會。（除非教會有其他身份）你才沒看POST!政教分離不是一視同仁嗎?

-------------------
「(還有,Anti-Trust Law本來說Play Fair就是叫假的,因為M$在部份的軟件業界本來就是唯一製作商
如果連民主黨純粹要重現美國因為M$本身是唯一Firm而狀告M$並將之分拆的動機都以為是「公平公正」的話,你跟街上閉上眼舉旗子叫普選的老伯實在沒分別。)」

如果你有看香港有關報告，反對Anti-Trust Law正是中小企（而不是大企業）。為什麼？請移玉步至政府咨詢文件。

至放MICROSOFT美國CASE，請自行看看MICROSOFT是做了什麼被告。提示，並不是「M$在部份的軟件業界本來就是唯一製作商」

我在「喊打喊殺」？還是你。
---------------
淫審處的評審員是公眾自願者中抽出，政府操縱?為何一定要業界?一來有利益衝突，二來要評審的是玩家反應（而不是商家）!

-------------
宗教組織例如佛敎當然可以續興辦宗教院校、其他學校、醫院和福利機構以及提供其他社會服務。

dye

教育系統是受政府所監控。是否如你所願則另作別論。

淫審處標準?
「根據《淫褻及不雅物品管制條例》，淫褻物品審裁處有權評定物品類別，為社會詮釋淫褻及不雅的含義。包括任何暴力、腐化或引起厭惡情緒的物品均被視為不雅。

按法例要求，審裁處在裁定及評定物品類別時，須考慮以下各項事宜：

社會上合理的人普遍接受的道德、禮儀及言行標準；
物品或事物整體上產生的顯著效果；
擬發布或相當可能發布的對象是甚麼人，屬那一類別或年齡組別；
如屬公開展示的事物，則須考慮展示地點及相當可能觀看該事物的人屬那一類別或年齡組別；及
該物品或事物是否有真正目的，還是用作掩飾不可接受的內容。
審裁處可將物品評定為：

第I類 — 既非淫褻亦非不雅；
第II類 — 不雅；或
第III類 — 淫褻。
如屬第II類物品，審裁處可附加條件，規限發布範圍。如果被評定為第III類物品，一律不得發布。」

dye

好的行得通便抄過來，不適合的便不抄。就這麽簡單。

dye

香港都是沒有完善的選舉制度，如果有的話，選舉結果如何也得接受。

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-30 17:35 編輯 ]

dye

在你是第一議題，但別人並不這樣認為！

dye

「反之淫審處你叫他們找個標準給你看?」
淫審處有標準

「反之淫審處你叫他們找個標準明確給你看?」
淫審處為何要細分？

「香港淫審處一樣可以找警察拘捕持有違禁品者才是奇怪」
你不打算發佈，似乎不算犯法

dye

ESRB也有方法埶行其監管，和淫審處二級入袋差不多。售賣而不公開有關東東可以告到罰款。ESRB是一個不同性質的法定機構。ESRB是「外發」的監管機構，淫審處是法庭的服務機構（像專業證人）

Enforcement
Ratings
As the game industry’s self-regulatory body, ESRB is responsible for the enforcement of its rating system. Every publisher of a game rated by the ESRB is legally bound, by contract, to disclose all pertinent content, in both written and audio-visual form, during the rating process, including content that may not be playable but will exist in the code on the final game disc (i.e. "locked out"). After a game is released, ESRB testers review both a random sample of games well as a number of hand-selected titles to verify that all pertinent content was fully disclosed. In the event of incomplete disclosure during the rating process which affected or could have affected the assignment of a rating or content descriptor, an ESRB enforcement action may be initiated, which could result in revocation of the original rating and the imposition of sanctions, including monetary fines. Corrective actions may also be required of the publisher to ensure that all game packaging and advertising materials are accurately labeled. Examples of corrective actions include the re-labeling of product inventory and unsold product at retail or, potentially, a product recall. Where warranted in order to ensure compliance with its directives, ESRB can suspend rating services altogether.




Advertising & Marketing
Publishers of games carrying an ESRB rating are also legally bound to follow the industry-adopted Principles and Guidelines for Responsible Advertising Practices and comply with numerous requirements addressing how ratings information must be displayed on game packaging and in advertising, as well as restrictions on where ads for M-rated games may appear.



ESRB’s Advertising Review Council (ARC) diligently monitors and enforces compliance with industry marketing guidelines across TV, print and online media vehicles. In the event that a game publisher inappropriately labels or advertises a product, the ESRB is empowered to compel corrective actions and impose a wide range of sanctions, including monetary fines where and when appropriate.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-9-30 17:48 編輯 ]

dye

(1) 審裁處在裁定物品是否淫褻或不雅，或裁定公開展示的事物是否不雅時，或在評定物品類別時，須考慮以下各項─
(a) 一般合理的社會人士普遍接受的道德禮教標準，且就物品而言，考慮該等標準時並可考慮檢查員根據《電影檢查條例》(第392章)第10條就該條例第2(1)條所指的影片所作的決定; (由1988年第25號第33(4)條代替)
(b) 物品或事物整體上產生的顯著效果；
(c) 如屬物品，其發布對象、擬發布對象或相當可能發布的對象是那些人，或是那一類別或年齡組別的人；
(d) 如屬公開展示的事物，該事物正在或將會在何處公開展示，以及相當可能觀看該事物的是那些人，或是那一類別或年齡組別的人；及
(e) 該物品或事物是否具有真正目的，或其內容是否只是掩飾，以使其任何部分成為可予接受者。
(2) 在審裁處進行的法律程序中，可就審裁處根據第(1)款必須或可以考慮的事項接納專家的意見，以確立或否定該事項。
〔比照 1963 No.22 s.11 N.Z.〕


》(第392章)第10條就該條例第2(1)

(1) 凡影片根據第8條送呈及獲接納，除非根據第9條處理，否則監督須在切實可行範圍內盡快(無論如何須在不遲於該影片獲接納後7個工作天)為該影片委派一名檢查員，同時可委派不少於2名顧問。 (由1993年第63號第7條修訂)
(2) 檢查員須在切實可行範圍內盡快觀看有關影片及考慮以下事項，以便根據第(4)款作出決定─
(a) 該影片是否描繪、刻劃或表現殘暴、酷刑、暴力、罪惡、恐怖、殘疾、性事或不雅或令人厭惡的言語或行為；及 (由1994年第101號第2條修訂)
(b) 該影片是否提及某一類公眾人士的膚色、種族、宗教信仰、民族來源、原屬國籍或性別，而以此污蔑或侮辱該類人士。 (由1994年第101號第2條修訂)
(c) (由1994年第101號第2條廢除)
(3) 檢查員在觀看有關影片及考慮第(2)款所提述的事項時，亦須顧及以下事項─
(a) 整部影片所產生的影響及對相當可能觀看該影片的人相當可能產生的影響；
(b) 該影片在藝術、教育、文學或科學方面可取之處，以及影片在文化或社會因素上的重要性或價值；及 (由1994年第101號第2條修訂)
(c) 有關該影片擬上映時的情況。 (由1994年第101號第2條修訂)
(d) (由1994年第101號第2條廢除)