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[瘋狂行徑] 屯門馬可賓中學強迫學生去「方舟不是神話佈道大會」

本帖最後由 Nomad 於 2010/7/6 12:29 編輯

有何奇怪?
納稅人出錢,教會的自由  - 團體自由大於個人自由就是香港文化嘛,理所當然。
津校制度本身就是這碼子的事,不高興?告他吧? 不過香港人?會嗎?
回復 19# dye


按照「香港文化」,的「香港法律」,你有得告才算啦。
各類院校均可保留其自主性並享有學術自由,可繼續從香港特別行政區以外招聘教職員和選用教材。宗教組織所辦的學校可繼續提供宗教教育,包括開設宗教課程。

宗教組織可按原有辦法繼續興辦宗教院校、其他學校、醫院和福利機構以及提供其他社會服務。

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答案就是,在「香港特色的宗教自由」下,教會學校幹甚麼,沒有告狀的余地。
這個討論已經完了。
回復 22# 沙文


到時他們記你大過加寫爛你TRANSCRIPT時,在香港你沒錢出國可能比小額錢債庭告更嚴重。
回復 24# dye


yeah, except, in a publicly funded school in US, that piece of notice alone would cease the funding to the school altogether, and possibly incur a huge fine on the school.
In Hong Kong? Nothing, the same "basic law" protects whatever the school does for shit as long as the legco, which is pretty much dominated by the same interest group, passes the bill.
Enjoy your "HK style basic rights".
本帖最後由 Nomad 於 2010/7/6 13:37 編輯

Also notice that  in HK there's neither tax return nor a "guaranteed" government funding for attending a non-government funded school, which means, if you do not attend a high school run by public funding, you're penalized by double-taxing.
Yeah, you have a choice  - some 6% of people, with some prohibiting exam selection can choose to enter a public school because that's all the government is providing*, provided that some 50% of them will end up in church school JUST BECAUSE THERE'LL BE NOWHERE ELSE to go.

Some 800 people out of the 6 million each year has the right to elect that stupid Chief Executive of HK, you "HAVE" a choice, by the same means.


*And to enter a public high school in an area in times involves going into a church elementary school first in which an anti-religious student is subjected to tracking, which means one usually would NOT be able to get through the selection unless he somewhat subject  himself somewhat into contemplating whatever religious bullshit the school is forcing upon students.
本帖最後由 Nomad 於 2010/7/6 14:40 編輯

回復 30# dye


Which means depending on the intepretation of the basic law the basic law contradicts itself, which means, unless the NPC stand out to intepretate the law, and unless that intepretation is in favor of the individual's : 1. Right to not have his taxation be used in direct religious activities, (as in US) or 2. Right not to be subjected to religious activities in a government funded service (as in US), otherwise, under article 137 the individual still retain no right to sue the school on the basis of forcing him into religious activities, as that "can" be legally a part of the school's religious class.

BTW, while most HK people would go out to protest any arbitrary kind of legislation of Article 23 (which really means, this law better be never legislated), and noticing in the way they react to Article 137, to say that the Hong Kong people did not involve in the signing of the basic law adds no teeth the the counter argument that they had made no effort to fight for that right (therefore, not quite deserving it.)

Again, enjoy your "basic rights fitted into the history of Hong Kong".
For your reference, that's where the 6% comes from:
http://www.edb.gov.hk/FileManager/SC/Content_689/edsys_c.pdf
本帖最後由 Nomad 於 2010/7/6 14:44 編輯

回復 35# dye

Of course there's no such exodus, because the parents has no choice at all (there simply aren't enough seats to move into - HK education system is SATURATED, look at that damn 43 people class at every high school in the urban area, and then a self-feeding ranking system ensures underfunded schools always gets underfunded), and they won't voice it, period. (oh in fact the students themselves who ARE the ones under the education, is conveniently out of the picture, again.)

No, you have a choice, you can go start a firm or something to become a functional group member and from there, become one of that 800 (just quite like going through that school system selection bullshit), same deal.
回復 37# dye


The 24th, BTW, buying seats from a school DO counts as government funding (at least under US law), since the money does not go to the parents to choose which school (including private) they go but to the school directly.
And then of course, as said:

to say that the Hong Kong people did not involve in the signing of the basic law adds no teeth the the counter argument that they had made no effort to fight for that right (therefore, not quite deserving it.)

Benjamin Franklin once said "They who sacrifice their essential liberty for a temporary safety, deserves neither liberty nor safety"*, to those who would give up their essential liberty without even buying any national security, I wonder what he would say.

* (of course that's the same guy who would try to conscript Americans into the army, so yeah, it's hard to apply this one into national security, really.)
回復 42# dye


Except you can join them, get through their test, and become on the the election member, then have a choice.
It's a long test, not many people get there, but by the same means, it's a choice.
回復 41# dye


First thing get REALLY clear about this, 6% public school, means 6% schools FUNDING, OWNED, AND RUN by government. That is, what you claimed, to be "Public High", would mean in any other parts of the world, which I proved to be under 6%. I did NOT refer, however, to all non-Christian choices, and that includes the concern of the fact that most of them are underfunded, under-ranked, (therefore has no selection of students), and therefore consistently botched. (particularly that poor PLK, they never had the ability to hire good teachers, at all)

Now,
http://chsc.hk/secondary/tc/advancesearch.asp
That's our stupid EDB tool on school searching (high school)
Total number of schools: 459
Total number of Protestant "funded" schools: 123
Total number of Protestant "direct subsidized" schools: 22
Total number of Catholics "funded" schools: 82
Total number of Catholics "direct subsidized" schools: 6
Total number of subsidized schools EXCLUDING schools subsidized on a attendee basis: 233
Percentage: 50.76
A good assumption is most schools, particularly excluding Rural Area, in which public and non-religious schools has a higher percentile, is of similar size, which means funded religious schools takes up 50% of the seats, and with a circularly rating system, most government funding.
回復 44# dye


Nope, they did. By "fighting" to be involved they DID fight to get a certain intrepretation of the basic law, and by any means, the same kind of protesting can certainly be done for ANY OTHER PARTS of the basic law, just like they did to Article 23, which is "postponed indefinitely". Was there a single protest for the rights discussed in this threat by the HK public that has anything even remotely comparable to that scale? No, period. Not even 1/10, 1/100, nor even 1/1000.
回復 47# dye


No, you can't have a present without a past, but who lives on the past, using it as an excuse not to deal with things they don't want to, won't ever get to the future, because they dwell on it. What I have shown, is even that was a limitation of the past is shown in Basic Law, just like how Article 23 is effectively ignored, if the people ever has any piece of a bit of determination, that piece of freedom is FAR EASIER, than, for example, universal suffrage 2012.

And then again, a people who cares only about voting but not their constitutional rights has clearly been shown in history - it's called German Republic post WWI.

The reason why past exist, most of the time, is that we need to learn a lesson from it.
回復 49# dye


It is that simple: is there even a mentioning of legislation of Art. 23 now? No, it's postponed indefinitely, period.
回復 52# dye

#31:
回復  Nomad

You can pick your public highschool in HK.  You HAVE a choice.


For exampl ...
dye 發表於 2010/7/6 14:18
回復 53# dye


Which means they simply don't care about their own religious freedom, and what's a people who would freely submit that? Someone in one of those "Islamic Republic" maybe?
回復 54# Nomad

And not including the tracking problem part, that's what I replied:

#33:
Yeah, you have a choice  - some 6% of people, with some prohibiting exam selection can choose to enter a public school because that's all the government is providing*, provided that some 50% of them will end up in church school JUST BECAUSE THERE'LL BE NOWHERE ELSE to go.

Of which I certainly has demonstrated the calculation.
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