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什麼都給祂了,哪些才屬於你?

離教之後,我曾經跟一個教徒保持聯絡。她是我同樣是教徒的朋友的表妹;亦是我以前說過的,[本來是個嬌俏的可人兒,卻因為接觸教會而變得不男不女]的人辦。
她是會考的重考生;當時她說要考會考了,可是還未溫書。我問她為什麼;她答我除了要兼職之外,也要看聖經、上教會,所以沒時間。
[那麼,為何不選擇不上教會,留點時間給自己溫書?]
[這怎麼可以呢!上教會就是要學習神的道,要敬拜神,保持和神的溝通呀。]
[可是,你不溫書,就不能升學了。]
[這也沒辦法呀!這是神的安排呢。]
看到這裡,大家有沒有失笑?
我繼續問。[神的安排?喂,你學歷高才可以找到多點食物,養活自己和家人呀。人活著,不能單靠上帝的話啊。]
[可是,考不到會考,也會是神的安排呀!][安排?怎樣安排?]
[祂想我多點時間理解祂的道理,多點時間敬拜神囉。]聽到這裡,我真的一時間不知怎樣回答。[可是,會考呢?如果你覺得會考不重要,那當初為什麼要報考?]
[我想,可能因為屁股癢吧。] 真的,我真的笑了。
[你不能這樣說呀!會考是你的,不是神的啊。現在是你在考,不是祂在考呀。]
[不!當然是祂的。]嗯?[我們要將一切榮耀都歸給神呀。所以,就連會考,也要歸給神。如果神不想我考會考,就一定有當中的益處。]
[那麼,你將所有都歸給神,那什麼才歸給你?]
[沒有的了,所有榮耀都要歸給神。考得到的榮耀要歸給神;考不到,就自有祂的安排,不用我操心。祂的安排,對我們一定有益處。]
怪不得有這麼多人寧願上教會了;原來上教會可以是不溫書的理由。
Alessa is a daughter of Dahlia Gillespie. Alessa gets toasted in a ritual. Alessa is in agony. Alessa sends a part of her soul (the pure part, the part that wouldn't have to suffer) away in a form of a baby abandoned on the road. Harry finds the baby with his wife. They name her Cheryl.

The rest of it... You know.

回復 #1 酒井明 的帖子

呢個都未算是最高境界。兼職都唔做咁先得嘛
de omnibus dubitandum
原帖由 酒井明 於 2007-7-23 19:49 發表
離教之後,我曾經跟一個教徒保持聯絡。她是我同樣是教徒的朋友的表妹;亦是我以前說過的,[本來是個嬌俏的可人兒,卻因為接觸教會而變得不男不女]的人辦。
她是會考的重考生;當時她說要考會考了,可是還未溫書。我問她為什麼;她 ...


唔單止,連其他人既野都要歸主:

我每次幫完身邊班耶友,佢地總會大聲叫「感謝主」!

我都唔知有無幫過佢地,或者我就係主!?

回復 #3 hund 的帖子

或者,我用我o既例子........人地讚我靚仔,我都會話[感謝我阿媽(生得我咁靚仔)]o既,咁,對方並唔係我阿媽喎!係咪?
嗯,好多謝你,你會睇我o既文章,而亦有回覆。

[ 本帖最後由 酒井明 於 2007-8-3 21:31 編輯 ]
Alessa is a daughter of Dahlia Gillespie. Alessa gets toasted in a ritual. Alessa is in agony. Alessa sends a part of her soul (the pure part, the part that wouldn't have to suffer) away in a form of a baby abandoned on the road. Harry finds the baby with his wife. They name her Cheryl.

The rest of it... You know.
讀好書考好個會考係學生應有的責任,甚麼上教會呀榮耀神呀神0既安排等等都係想推卸責任的籍口,乜佢教會無教佢要盡責咩??
要我再信基督教不如一刀捅死我

不理天堂的引誘,不理地獄的恐嚇,總之我和基督教誓不兩立

http://hk.myblog.yahoo.com/beckyhk720
原帖由 天煞孤星 於 2007-8-4 10:51 發表
讀好書考好個會考係學生應有的責任,甚麼上教會呀榮耀神呀神0既安排等等都係想推卸責任的籍口,乜佢教會無教佢要盡責咩??

教會主要會教佢地做個盡責既基督徒,要事奉、團契、開組、崇拜、祈禱、讀經、傳教……(咦?乜仲有時間剩去溫書咩?
支持鼓勵每位離教者

小總結

一些在一般人心目中是離奇荒誕的邏輯,在基基心目中卻變得正常不過;反之亦然。這就是基基們被人視為怪人的理由之一。
所以,如我所說,在現時的香港,承認自己是基督徒,比承認自己是同性戀者更令人難堪。(呼應著[別承認自己是基督徒]一文)
Alessa is a daughter of Dahlia Gillespie. Alessa gets toasted in a ritual. Alessa is in agony. Alessa sends a part of her soul (the pure part, the part that wouldn't have to suffer) away in a form of a baby abandoned on the road. Harry finds the baby with his wife. They name her Cheryl.

The rest of it... You know.
If a person value God's order as the most important, everything else is only secondary.  'Duty' to them can only mean duty to God.

However our value is dependent on our understanding of the world.  Our understanding of the world depends on our experience in the world (parents, education) and the biological state.

If we are unlucky and are in their shoe, chance is high that we will be the same...

I don't think it is an embarrasment to admit to be a Christian.  Everyone had inherited some crazy ideas.

Consider the many Sikh living in Hong Kong.  There is nothing embarrass about dressing in their religious headgear with their religious beard.  (Where I live in Hong Kong, there is a Sikh elementary school.  Part of the uniform is the turban on the head.)



[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2007-8-4 19:25 編輯 ]

回復 #8 dye 的帖子

很感謝你這另一方面的意見及回覆。呀,我不禁認為,你會不會也是個錫克教徒呢?看上去,這種衣飾穿著時應該很舒服,只是這樣被頭巾包裹著,會比較熱,對不? 可能是看得多,習慣了吧,我不覺得這種衣飾有任何不妥呢。
Alessa is a daughter of Dahlia Gillespie. Alessa gets toasted in a ritual. Alessa is in agony. Alessa sends a part of her soul (the pure part, the part that wouldn't have to suffer) away in a form of a baby abandoned on the road. Harry finds the baby with his wife. They name her Cheryl.

The rest of it... You know.
真正係飯都唔使煮, 餓死也是主安排.
都不知道這種教徒如何起社會立足,可以為左返教會連書都唔好好地讀,做人唔係淨係盡基督徒的責任嘛,還有要供養父母的責任、在工作上的責任、做學生應有的責任呢?? 淨係盡左基督徒的責任又如何搵食??(讀唔成書大有可能搵唔到工,搵唔到工就搵唔到食架啦),搵唔到食又點比十一奉獻比教會呀?? 唔好又話神0既安排喎  聽講十一奉獻都係基督徒0既責任喎
要我再信基督教不如一刀捅死我

不理天堂的引誘,不理地獄的恐嚇,總之我和基督教誓不兩立

http://hk.myblog.yahoo.com/beckyhk720
I think the philosophy of Christians can hardly be understood by atheists.
我會嘗試將她的說話全部反轉來理解:

她回答說:「我想,可能因為屁股癢吧。」表現得對會考毫不在乎,
其實她非常緊張自己的會考成績,對會考充滿恐懼,以致無法集中精神好好溫習課本。

對宗教的熱情不過是個假象,她要逃避更實在的生活困窘。
原帖由 龍井樹 於 2007-8-6 14:50 發表
對宗教的熱情不過是個假象,她要逃避更實在的生活困窘。

我認同這個看法。傳教小冊子中說自己管理生命一團糟,而交給上帝就會井井有條,這亦是鼓勵教徒或初信者逃避現實的方法。可惜的是,交給上帝(事實上是交給教會)往往會把你的生命弄得更糟。
支持鼓勵每位離教者
原帖由 抽刀斷水 於 2007-8-6 14:56 發表

我認同這個看法。傳教小冊子中說自己管理生命一團糟,而交給上帝就會井井有條,這亦是鼓勵教徒或初信者逃避現實的方法。可惜的是,交給上帝(事實上是交給教會)往往會把你的生命弄得更糟。 ...



而往往,這種變得更糟的生活,會被身邊教徒不斷洗腦,說是因為身為基督徒就要背著十字架過活,所以身為基督徒,感到生活有苦楚是必然的;要你以[凡事感恩]的心情對待它,並要你以不斷的[事奉]來麻醉你,要你合理地逃避現實。
說出來好像不可思議;但一些自我價值偏低、沒自信、沒主見的人,就很容易跌進這個陷阱裡,這個與傳統中國人到廟宇拜神燒香,祈褔保祐的心理是一模一樣的。
Alessa is a daughter of Dahlia Gillespie. Alessa gets toasted in a ritual. Alessa is in agony. Alessa sends a part of her soul (the pure part, the part that wouldn't have to suffer) away in a form of a baby abandoned on the road. Harry finds the baby with his wife. They name her Cheryl.

The rest of it... You know.
原帖由 酒井明 於 2007-8-6 17:54 發表
... 但一些自我價值偏低、沒自信、沒主見的人,就很容易跌進這個陷阱裡,這個與傳統中國人到廟宇拜神燒香,祈褔保祐的心理是一模一樣的。

我認為更糟。

因為拜神燒香,求個安心後,以後發展無論如何,都不會有人常在你耳邊說要感謝主/信心不足/要十一奉獻等。
支持鼓勵每位離教者

回復 #15 酒井明 的帖子

有個詞形容這類人的行為心態,叫「救世主情意結」。
他們把自己所受的心理壓力合理化,視之為必然之事,是「天將降大任於斯人」的必然代價;
他們無視壓力的源頭與成困,將自己想像成天命所與的救世者,為著天國大業而到世間來受苦。

回復 #17 龍井樹 的帖子

嗯........很同意龍井兄的見解。而你所形容的這種心態,也可用[犬儒],即cynicism作闡譯;合理化的不是心理壓力,而是後來那種痛苦——即使前一種痛苦消失,他們也會自願去找另一種痛苦代替,繼續[享受]下去。電影[The Da Vinci code]裡面的角色Silas,就是作者用曲筆去訴說耶教徒這種心態。
Alessa is a daughter of Dahlia Gillespie. Alessa gets toasted in a ritual. Alessa is in agony. Alessa sends a part of her soul (the pure part, the part that wouldn't have to suffer) away in a form of a baby abandoned on the road. Harry finds the baby with his wife. They name her Cheryl.

The rest of it... You know.
以我所知「犬儒」不是這個意思,不過我沒有興趣在這個題目上討論下去。
Word History: A cynic may be pardoned for thinking that this is a dog's life. The Greek word kunikos, from which cynic comes, was originally an adjective meaning "doglike," from kuōn, "dog." The word was probably applied to the Cynic philosophers because of the nickname kuōn given to Diogenes of Sinope, the prototypical Cynic. He is reported to have been seen barking in public, urinating on the leg of a table, and masturbating on the street. The first use of the word recorded in English, in a work published from 1547 to 1564, is in the plural for members of this philosophical sect. In 1596 we find the first instance of cynic meaning "faultfinder," a sense that was to develop into our modern sense. The meaning "faultfinder" came naturally from the behavior of countless Cynics who in their pursuit of virtue pointed out the flaws in others. Such faultfinding could lead quite naturally to the belief associated with cynics of today that selfishness determines human behavior.

——————
cyn·ic  又叫 「憤世嫉俗者」

A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2007-8-7 10:29 編輯 ]
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