逃出魔幻紀

沙文兄，你的診斷正確。我都笑了。每次我想信耶穌時，我就會變得很亂。百發百中，唔知點解？

逃出魔幻紀， ...
哈佛專家 發表於 2019/11/6 05:32

哈佛又嚟玩矛盾喇，你話到你好似對天主教基督教頗有研究噉，信天主教百分之幾幾信乜乜宗百分之幾物物宗百分之幾噉話，但就唔知呢的宗派認同嘅三位一體。天主就係耶穌耶穌就係天主，討厭天主就係討厭耶穌，何來「我無討厭耶穌喎，但我對耶穌所講的上帝唔識得欣賞。」
耶穌對其他宗教及其信衆嘅睇法係點，你睇《默示錄》第2章就一清二楚（如果你真係睇過聖經而且明白其內容的話）。
再向你提一個建議：嘗試用換位思考嘅方法去理解各派別嘅立場，以及佢哋之間嘅矛盾所在，睇清楚啲關係就唔會再「變得很亂」啦。譬如睇下而家嘅社會現實：中小學嘅校長同老師，向學生灌輸符合法律同社會道德嘅價值觀，盡力將佢哋培養成唔會偷呃拐騙作奸犯科而且對社會有貢獻嘅人；但係啲黑社會就敵視法律同社會規範，成日派人入學校收靚，企圖喺自己控制嘅地盤儘量吸收新血壯大勢力，用破壞社會嘅手段去獲得非法利益。原理上，學校同黑社會係正邪不兩立。如果有一個入咗社團跟咗大佬嘅學生，佢想盡力聽老師話，守法守紀對社會作出貢獻，但係又要堅持追隨大佬打家劫舍姦淫擄掠，而且認同呢啲係人生在世建功立業所必須嘅義氣行為，噉佢喺殺緊人嘅時候，諗起學校老師嘅教導，一定「就會變得很亂，百發百中」。
所以呢，學校同黑社會都想儘量吸收青少年，以一統自己江湖。沙文所講嘅黑手黨起學校嘅事，就係黑社會以一統江湖為目的嘅帶欺騙性嘅高級手段。
做良好公民同加入黑社會兩樣嘢，衹能揀一樣，魚與熊掌不可兼得，冇得貪心。

哈佛專家

我無矛盾喎，因為耶穌係想改革舊約聖經中上帝的形象。而且，就佛教密宗而言，耶穌真的是觀世音菩薩的化身，而且是佛教的秘密事業護法。唔只天主的獨生子那麼簡單。而且，我根據佛教的宗旨，判斷耶穌是第十地大菩薩，而天主或稱上帝只是第七地大菩薩，明顯是子勝於父。

我當然相信三位一體：天主、聖靈及聖子三位一體。但我同時亦相信天主、聖靈及聖子全部都是觀世音菩薩的化身。

哈佛專家

我真係無玩矛盾喎。個人理解，耶穌及猶太教所講的上帝即是伊斯蘭教的真神阿拉，即是印度教的大梵天王或者維修奴(Vishnu)。只是名稱不同，上帝這個實體是存在的。

就佛教而言，耶穌所講的上帝相當於佛教的大梵天王或帝釋，十分正確。

逃出魔幻紀

回覆 23# 哈佛專家
噉我明曬喇，從我嘅視角觀察，你係讀緊黑手黨教父開辦嘅標榜係世界道德水準最高嘅學校，而且篤信教父嗰啲順我者生逆我者亡嘅江湖義氣道理，心入邊充滿一統江湖指點江山嘅豪邁同自信。
但係從你個角度嚟睇，政府學校教嘅「老唔老以及人之老」之類嘅道理，同黑手黨教父講嘅嘅道理有出入，所以你判斷官校嘅道理係錯嘅。
你話耶穌想改變上帝形象同埋嗰的乜乜化身嘅論述，係比異端更不知所謂嘅黑手黨邪惡教材。由於你記熟曬呢啲教材而且凡事以此為基礎去思考，所以你唔明我講嘅矛盾係乜。
都係嗰句，魚與熊掌，世界上冇半魚半熊嘅動物。

哈佛專家

說耶穌係想改革舊約聖經中上帝的形象，查實係研究耶穌及聖經的學者的推論，不是我自創的。而且有一種說法，早期基督教(Early Christianity)的教會的弟子並沒有將真正的聖經交給羅馬教會。因此，現在所見的聖經有可能是不完整的。再講，舊約聖經主要是猶太教的經典，而新約聖經才側重宣揚耶穌的福音。我比較壴喜歡讀"另類福音"，這個教會當然會認為我是異端。但我個人覺得，另類福音可能更接近耶穌的福音。例如，學者提出的Q版福音之說，一些基督徒亦有平安福音之記載。此外，水上使徒行傳亦是一種內容豐富的另類福音。我個人認為，耶穌的福音在新約福音只有40%的福音，另外60%的福音是在另類福音那裡。例如，平安福音及水上使徒行傳等。

說耶穌是觀世音菩薩的化身，而且是佛教的秘密事業護法。這種說法絕對經得起考驗。我對此很有信心。

一個說自己開的學校才是正宗的學校，未必是正宗的。一個標榜開放式教學的學校可能更受歡迎。我要讀標榜開放式教學的學校。謝謝。

哈佛專家

若你有興趣研究早期基督教，可以參考下列的資料。

The Early Christian Writings

30-60         Passion Narrative
40-80         Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60         1 Thessalonians
50-60         Philippians
50-60         Galatians
50-60         1 Corinthians
50-60         2 Corinthians
50-60         Romans
50-60         Philemon
50-80         Colossians
50-90         Signs Gospel
50-95         Book of Hebrews
50-120         Didache
50-140         Gospel of Thomas
50-140         Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-150         Apocalypse of Adam
50-150         Eugnostos the Blessed
50-200         Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80         Gospel of Mark
70-100         Epistle of James
70-120         Egerton Gospel
70-160         Gospel of Peter
70-160         Secret Mark
70-200         Fayyum Fragment
70-200         Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200         Mara Bar Serapion
80-100         2 Thessalonians
80-100         Ephesians
80-100         Gospel of Matthew
80-110         1 Peter
80-120         Epistle of Barnabas
80-130         Gospel of Luke
80-130         Acts of the Apostles
80-140         1 Clement
80-150         Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150         Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250         Christian Sibyllines
90-95         Revelation
90-120         Gospel of John
90-120         1 John
90-120         2 John
90-120         3 John
90-120         Epistle of Jude
93         Flavius Josephus
100-150         1 Timothy
100-150         2 Timothy
100-150         Titus
100-150         Apocalypse of Peter
100-150         Secret Book of James
100-150         Preaching of Peter
100-160         Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160         Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160         Shepherd of Hermas
100-160         2 Peter
100-200         Odes of Solomon
100-200         Gospel of Eve
100-230         Thunder, Perfect Mind
101-220         Book of Elchasai
105-115         Ignatius of Antioch
110-140         Polycarp to the Philippians
110-140         Papias
110-160         Oxyrhynchus 840 Gospel
110-160         Traditions of Matthias
111-112         Pliny the Younger
115         Suetonius
115         Tacitus
120-130         Quadratus of Athens
120-130         Apology of Aristides
120-140         Basilides
120-140         Naassene Fragment
120-160         Valentinus
120-180         Apocryphon of John
120-180         Gospel of Mary
120-180         Dialogue of the Savior
120-180         Gospel of the Savior
120-180         2nd Apocalypse of James

120-180         Trimorphic Protennoia
120-180         Gospel of Perfection
120-200         Genna Marias
130-140         Marcion
130-150         Aristo of Pella
130-160         Epiphanes On Righteousness
130-160         Ophite Diagrams
130-160         2 Clement
130-170         Gospel of Judas
130-200         Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus
140-150         Epistula Apostolorum       
140-160         Ptolemy
140-160         Isidore
140-170         Fronto
140-170         Infancy Gospel of James
140-170         Infancy Gospel of Thomas
140-180         Gospel of Truth
150-160         Martyrdom of Polycarp
150-160         Justin Martyr
150-180         Excerpts of Theodotus
150-180         Heracleon
150-200         Ascension of Isaiah
150-200         Interpretation of Knowledge
150-200         Testimony of Truth
150-200         Acts of Peter
150-200         Acts of John
150-200         Acts of Paul
150-200         Acts of Andrew
150-225         Acts of Peter and the Twelve
150-225         Book of Thomas the Contender
150-250         Paraphrase of Shem
150-250         Fifth and Sixth Books of Esra
150-300         Authoritative Teaching
150-300         Coptic Apocalypse of Paul
150-300         Prayer of the Apostle Paul
150-300         Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth
150-300         Melchizedek
150-350         Preaching of Paul
150-350         Epistle to the Laodiceans
150-350         Questions of Mary
150-350         Allogenes, the Stranger
150-350         Hypsiphrone
150-350         Valentinian Exposition
150-350         Act of Peter
150-360         Concept of Our Great Power
150-400         Acts of Pilate
150-400         Anti-Marcionite Prologues
150-400         Dialogue Between John and Jesus
160-170         Tatian's Address to the Greeks
160-180         Claudius Apollinaris
160-180         Apelles
160-180         Julius Cassianus
160-250         Octavius of Minucius Felix
161-180         Acts of Carpus
165-175         Melito of Sardis
165-175         Hegesippus
165-175         Dionysius of Corinth
165-175         Lucian of Samosata
167         Marcus Aurelius
170-175         Diatessaron
170-200         Dura-Europos Gospel Harmony
170-200         Muratorian Canon
170-200         Treatise on the Resurrection
170-220         Letter of Peter to Philip
170-230         Thought of Norea
175-180         Athenagoras of Athens
175-185         Irenaeus of Lyons
175-185         Rhodon
175-185         Theophilus of Caesarea
175-190         Galen
178         Celsus
178         Letter from Vienna and Lyons
180         Passion of the Scillitan Martyrs
180-185         Theophilus of Antioch
180-185         Acts of Apollonius

180-220         Bardesanes
180-220         Kerygmata Petrou
180-230         Hippolytus of Rome
180-230         Sentences of Sextus
180-250         1st Apocalypse of James
180-250         Gospel of Philip
182-202         Clement of Alexandria
185-195         Maximus of Jerusalem
185-195         Polycrates of Ephesus
188-217         Talmud
189-199         Victor I
190-210         Pantaenus
190-230         Second Discourse of Great Seth
193         Anonymous Anti-Montanist
193-216         Inscription of Abercius
197-220         Tertullian
200-210         Serapion of Antioch
200-210         Apollonius
200-220         Caius
200-220         Philostratus
200-225         Acts of Thomas
200-230         Ammonius of Alexandria
200-230         Zostrianos
200-230         Three Steles of Seth
200-230         Exegesis on the Soul
200-250         Didascalia
200-250         Books of Jeu
200-300         Pistis Sophia
200-300         Tripartite Tractate
200-300         Hypostasis of the Archons
200-300         Prayer of Thanksgiving
200-300         Coptic Apocalypse of Peter
200-330         Apostolic Church Order
200-350         Holy Book of the Great Invisible Spirit
200-450         Monarchian Prologues
203         Acts of Perpetua and Felicitas
203-250         Origen
210-245         Lucian of Antioch
217-222         Callistus
230-265         Dionysius of Alexandria
230-268         Firmilian of Caesarea
240-260         Commodian
246-258         Cyprian
250-274         Gospel of Mani
250-300         Teachings of Silvanus
250-300         Excerpt from the Perfect Discourse
250-350         Coptic Apocalypse of Elijah
250-400         Apocalypse of Paul
251-253         Pope Cornelius
251-258         Novatian
254-257         Pope Stephen
259-268         Dionysius of Rome
260-280         Theognostus
265-282         Gregory Thaumaturgus
269-274         Pope Felix
270-310         Victorinus of Pettau
270-312         Methodius
270-330         Marsanes
270-330         On the Origin of the World
270-350         De Recta in Deum Fide
280-300         Hesychius
280-310         Pierius
280-310         Pamphilus of Caesarea
297-310         Arnobius of Sicca
300-311         Peter of Alexandria
300-320         Pseudo-Clementine Homilies
300-340         Eusebius of Caesarea
300-350         Manichean Acts of Leucius Charinus
300-390         Letters of Paul and Seneca
300-400         Apocalypse of Thomas
300-400         Freer Logion
300-600         Gospel of Gamaliel
303-316         Lactantius
310-334         Reticius of Autun
320-380         Pseudo-Clementine Recognitions


Early Christian Writings is the most complete collection of Christian texts before the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. The site provides translations and commentary for these sources, including the New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers, and some non-Christian references. The "Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers" site is copyright © Peter Kirby <E-Mail>. Permission is given to link to any HTML file on the Early Christian Writings site.


Early Christian Writings
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com

謝謝

哈佛專家

還有一些小研究供你參考

Five Secret Gospels

Four Secret Gospels:

1. Gospel of Barnabas
2. Gnosis, Gnostic Gospels, Gnosticism (include the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of John, and so on.)
3. Gospel of Mark (related to the Coptic Orthodox Tradition in Alexandria, Egypt)
4. Gospel of Q

Plus
5. The teachings of the Jesus on the Vegetarian Lifestyle

These five gospels are secret and alternative, and the Christians Churches (whether the Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox) marked these five gospels are the serious taboos.

The Early Christian History can be divided into:

A. Very Early Christian History
  1. The Jesus Movements (7 BCE to about 170 CE)
  2. The Gnostic Christian Movement (Pre-Christian to 5th century CE)
  3. The Gospel of Q (circa 50 to 85 CE)

B. The Christian History in the 4th Century to 6th Century
    In the 4th Century to the 6th Century, the Christianity become the predominant religion in the Europe and official religion of the Roman Empire.  The Catholic Tradition and Orthodox Tradition was being developed in that centuries.

C. The Christian History after the 6th Century (not early)


Reference:

1. ReligiousTolerance.Org
2. www.barnabas.net
3. Other web sites, e.g. the Gnostic sites


Appendix:

Clarification

The Secret Gospel of Mark is the controversial one. It can be interpreted as covering Greek style pederastery as part of a mystery initiation by Jesus. But it all depends on what the word "know" means ;-) Clement of Alexandria recorded that when the Gospel of Mark came to Alexandria Egypt, it came in three forms ... a kerygma, a gospel, and a secret gospel.


謝謝

逃出魔幻紀

回覆 25# 哈佛專家

我是留意到你的說話和觀點充滿矛盾，所以建議你留意和理順一下，順便告訴你黑社會跟文明社會的政府學校是永遠不會成為同路人的，你聽不明白就算了。但沒有必要明知我最討厭黑社會，卻特意給我展示一堆黑社會社團的花名冊和數簿，難道你判斷我會看嗎？真是又一大矛盾！

哈佛專家

我只是想告訴你，真正的耶穌的福音有很多是刊載在"另類福音"那裡。你沒興趣就算了。我目前的主力在佛教那裡，也沒有足夠的時間及精力研究另類福音及聖經。彼此是沒有交集啦。

哈佛專家

還有一個福音叫平安福音，也可以參考。
Essene Gospels Of Peace
http://www.essene.com/GospelOfPeace/

請參考

beebeechan

我只是想告訴你，真正的耶穌的福音有很多是刊載在"另類福音"那裡。你沒興趣就算了。我目前的主力在佛教那裡，也沒有足夠的時間及精力研究另類福音及聖經。彼此是沒有交集啦。
哈佛專家 發表於 2019/11/6 22:28

    白痴人真會講白痴話

既然「沒有足夠的時間及精力研究另類福音及聖經」，　郤又能咬牙實齒咁講：「真正的耶穌的福音有很多是刊載在"另類福音"那裡」

猶如說：我不識誰是陳小明, 但我知佢一定係個大賤人!

逃出魔幻紀

回覆 31# beebeechan

咪就係！讀書一定要理清思路，唔可以馬虎。

哈佛專家

你們都白癡既！研究福音及整理福音不是我一個人之力可以做到的，我又不是專門研究耶穌的學者。你們有機會學習卻不去學習，才是有問題！

哈佛專家

水上使徒行傳證明耶穌有到印度及西藏學佛，也曾經到波斯及埃及旅行，擁有多元文化的背景。

beebeechan

水上使徒行傳證明耶穌有到印度及西藏學佛，也曾經到波斯及埃及旅行，擁有多元文化的背景。 ...
哈佛專家 發表於 2019/11/7 04:33

    挑。。。不如吹埋耶穌去咗日本，　仲係過到死葬吖！

咁鐘意吹，　幾時同我吹簫

沙文

幾時同我吹簫
beebeechan 發表於 2019/11/6 13:17

呢尐就梗係問神父, 佢先有聖水畀您
https://www.chinatimes.com/realt ... 002527-260408?chdtv

沙文

沙文兄，你的診斷正確。我都笑了。每次我想信耶穌時，我就會變得很亂。百發百中，唔知點解？
哈佛專家 發表於 2019/11/5 13:32

實不相瞞，我咁正常全靠唔理聖經。但係睇聖經就有，小學讀癲鼠教學校，中學就雞涿教。學校教聖經，其原理就好似防疫針，打少少病毒入去等我習慣咗先，大個仔有疫症來襲我都冇有怕。您未必要用我嘅approach, 但係您有睇聖經就證明您睇佛經唔夠。若然您睇嗮佛經，邊有咁L得閒連水徒福音都睇埋？

哈佛專家

要你切J，我至先肯幫你吹簫。哈哈。

話時話，呢幅圖好似係博物館，耶穌根本無死係日本。

水上使徒行傳亦說到，耶穌有講輪迴和業力。

哈佛專家

當初我研究聖經，係奇怪天主教及基督教有什麼吸引力，結果沒有特殊的發現。我都一向好少研究聖經，亦好少研究"另類福音"。但我看過一些另類福音的內容，發覺內容比較合理。我無信晒教會所編的聖經，有參考學者的研究成果。水上使徒行傳及平安福音值得一看。

佛經三藏十二部經的確看不完。但我看福音，係看看有什麼教理可言。結論是聖經的教理不及佛經微妙。

哈佛專家

英語版維基百科記載如下

Major points of Aquarian Gospel

The Aquarian Gospel makes the following claims, among others:

1.  The revelation of The Aquarian Gospel was prophesied 2,000 years ago by Elihu, who conducted a school of the prophets in Zoan, Egypt. He said thus:

        "This age will comprehend but little of the works of Purity and Love; but not a word is lost, for in the Book of God's Remembrance a registry is made of every thought and word and deed.
        And When The world is ready to receive, lo, God will send a messenger to open up the book and copy from its sacred pages all the messages of Purity and Love. - Aquarian Gospel 7:25-26

2.  There are 18 unknown years of Jesus' life missing in the Bible (ages 12–30). Like Nicolas Notovitch did before in his The Unknown Life Of Jesus Christ: By The Discoverer Of The Manuscript (1887), the Aquarian Gospel documents these 18 years as a time when Jesus travels to the centers of wisdom in western India, Tibet, Persia, Assyria, Greece, and Egypt. In each of these capital cities, he is educated, tested, and teaches the religious leaders. Jesus inevitably proves that he is 'God's chosen one' (the Christ) in these locales and brings back this multi-cultural wisdom and confidence to Galilee and Judea.
3.  Jesus puts on the role of The Christ, but is not automatically Christ by nature. By making himself, through desire, effort, ability and prayer, a fit vessel, Jesus enabled The Christ to dwell within him. Christ is therefore used as a term for the seemingly perfect human being that Jesus exemplified, a human being that has been "Christened" (anointed) and therefore made holy.
4.  Jesus came to Earth to show the way back to God via his lifestyle and teachings. He is the example we must model our own lives after, if we seek salvation.
5.  Reincarnation exists and karma ("You reap what you sow") is the explanation for various injustices. Reincarnation allows people to settle debts they have incurred in past lives.
6.  Humanity has forgotten God and is currently working its way back to fully remembering God.
7.  Time is separated into ages. These ages last approximately 2,000 years. We are now nearing the start of the Aquarian Age.
8.  All souls will eventually mature and evolve towards the perfect, like Jesus the Christ.
9.  No soul is ever abandoned by God.
10. The trinity is strength, love and wisdom.