沙文

Talking about trains, perhaps I can use it to explain some translation tricks.
Sometimes, 準確≠正確

If you go aboard a train in China, this is the announcement you'll hear : 旅客們.....
But on a train in the English world, they will only start with "Ladies and gentlemen...."

If you translate the the Chinese announcement with "Travelers....", it would be a little rude /odd. But can I say you are incorrect? Logically speaking 旅客們 is even more accurate -- because "Ladies and gentlemen " ruled out the kids. The only problem is "Travelers" just doesn't sound like English.

I think this is the situation we are going through.
======================================================
Pastors / preachers / religious teachers said that religion X had ...... problems.<---- has."had"  indicates used to have, but now it has gone.


a wide range of debates were raised on criticizing the discrimination of churches  <-----  a wide range of debates has been raised

抽刀斷水

呢點我都知既，只是非不為而不能也之嘛。

當中得閒約上帝出黎飲茶啦一句，我都譯作ask him out for a drink，就係知道西人去吧飲酒多過去酒樓飲茶啦。

抽刀斷水

最後了，無人改就上線喇：

十 度 門 的 故 事

* 實 事 求 是 , 無 需 自 欺 欺 人 *

思考問題:

一間大屋內, 有 10 間房, 全部房門都是關上的.

問題 1> 若要証明其中一間房內 有一隻金蛋, 你最少要開多少度門呢?

問題 2> 若要証明所有房間內 沒有金蛋, 你最少要開多少度門呢?

　

( 請現在思索答案........ 然後繼續閱讀. )

　

有答案後 請繼續 : .......

　

　

答案:

1> 若你開第一度門便找到, 便無需再開第二度門. 最少,只需開一度門.

2> 若要証明所有房間內 沒有金蛋, 你必需全部開啟, 只要有一度門未開, 都唔能夠証明沒有.

推論: 要証明一樣o野 "存在" 一定比証明 "不存在" 容易.

　

若 "門" 的數目是無限又如何呢?

1> 若你開第一度門便找到, 便無需再開第二度門. 無限門,亦有機會証明存在. 最少,只需開一度門.

2> 若要証明所有房間內 沒有金蛋, 你必需開啟無限的門. 不論你點樣開, 始終不能証明沒有, 因為門的數目是無限的.

推論: 在無限門的情況下, 証明一樣o野 "存在" 仍然有可能. 而要証明 "不存在" 跟本不可能. 所以, 在無限門的情況下, 要求他人証明"不存在",跟本就是無聊.

　

一件事,無法証明存在, 亦無法証明不存在. 就應該定為 "可能存在,亦可能不存在".

絕對絕對 不能定義為: "無法証明不存在, 就即是存在啦".<<- 絕對絕對錯!!

相信一樣 "可能存在,亦可能不存在" 的東西, 還神化至極點--全能! 似乎.....真是.....XXXX

要四處宣揚呢個 "可能存在,亦可能不存在" 的東西, 更加.......哈哈. 不知算什麼.

以上 思考問題, 送給所有 基督徒,準基督徒.

不是反基督, 不是反宗教, 只是實事求是.

宗教只是宗教. 自己用來安撫自己來取得心靈支持.

請不要用本故仔書來解釋宇宙起源. 宗教還宗教,現實還現實.

　

拿不出證據, 請不要再四處宣揚呢個 "可能存在, 亦可能不存在" 的東西.

　

更勿再以聖經來解釋宇宙起源 !!!

勿再以聖經來解釋人類及生物起源 !!!

勿再以聖經來作所謂挑戰科學. 科學/知識怎樣渺小, 也比聖經來得積極, 實際, 真實 !!

The Story of Ten Doors

Imagine there is a large house with 10 rooms.  All doors are closed.

Question 1:  At least how many doors you have to open to prove that there is a golden egg in one of the rooms?

Question 2: At least how many doors you have to open to prove that there is no golden egg in all rooms?

(Please think about the answer now...... then keep reading)



After you got the answer, please continue:




Answer:

1. If you find the golden egg when you open the 1st door, you don't have to open the 2nd door.  Therefore you at least have to open 1 door.

2. To prove there is no golden egg in the house, you must open all doors. You cannot prove the non-existence even with 1 room left.

Corollary: It is easier to prove something "exists" than "doesn't exist".


What if the case with infinite number of doors?

1. If you find the egg when you open the 1st door, you don't have to open the 2nd door. It is still possible to prove the egg exists by opening at least 1 door for the case with infinite number of doors.

2. To prove there is no golden egg in all rooms, you must open infinite number of doors.   When the number of doors is infinite, you cannot prove its non-existence even with 1 door closed.

Corollary: For the case with infinite number of doors, it's still possible to prove existence, but it's impossible to prove non-existence. It is therefore nonsense to ask people to prove something "doesn't exist" in the case of infinite number of doors.

Unable to prove something exists and doesn't exist, should be defined as "may or may not exist".

It is absolutely wrong to define it as "it exists because you can't prove it doesn't"!

It's XXXX to believe in something which "may or may not exist" and deify it to the most degree, i.e. omnipotent.

For those people who spread around this "may or may not exist" thing, I really don't know what to say.
The above thoughtful questions are for all Christians and quasi-Christians.

(Translated from an article from the website: The Church of the True God Frog)

沙文

In general, you have too many "you no longer need to", to keep it simple, "you don't have to" is a good phrase to use.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big house. In North America, a house with 10 rooms is big, not large.

All the 10 doors are closed. <- all doors are closed. You don't presume 1 door per room.

Therefore at least you need to open 1 door. > Therefore you at least need to open 1 door.

there is no golden eggs >- there are no golden eggs, or there is no golden egg.

2. If you need to prove that there is no golden eggs in all rooms, you must open all doors.  You are unable to prove it even just 1 of the doors hasn't opened.
2. To prove there is no golden egg in the house, you must open all doors. You cannot prove the non-existence even with 1 room left.

You are unable to prove it doesn't exist if just 1 door has not been opened, and the number of doors is infinite.
When the number of doors is infinite, you cannot prove its non-existence even with 1 door closed.

Corollary: For the case with infinite number of doors, it's still possible to prove something "exists", but it's impossible to prove it "doesn't exist". It is therefore nonsense to ask others to prove something "doesn't exist" for the case with infinite number of doors.
Corollary: For the case with infinite number of doors, it's still possible to prove existence, but it's impossible to prove non-existence. It is therefore nonsense to ask people to prove something "doesn't exist" in the case of infinite number of doors.

It is absolutely wrong to define it as "exists because you can't prove it doesn't exist"!
It is absolutely wrong  to define it as "it exists because you can't prove it doesn't."!

It's XXXX to believe in something which "may or may not exist" and deify it to the most degree, i.e. omnipotent. <-- Rewrite this, it is too Chinese, nobody can follow.

And, I don't know how to describe for someone who spreads around the thing that "may or may not exist". <--
I really don't know how to describe something "may or may not exist".

The above thoughtful questions are given to all christians and quasi-christians as a present.
The above thoughtful questions are for all Christians and quasi-Christians.

dye

The flaw in this logic is:

If you pick a number between 0 and 1 (infinite number of possibility),
For simplicity, we also assume the the probability of number being pick is evenly distributed

If we have check that the number you pick is not between 0 and 0.99, does it not say something about the number you pick?

-----------

If you have bought 10 eggs and 9 of them are rot, are you going to think that the last one is an exception?

--------
Using the "10 door problem".  If you open 9 doors and find no golden egg, does it not say anything about the probability for the existence of the egg?

-----------
The problem is that if the 9 doors (sample) are representative of the population (10 doors), it says something about the population.

You may ask the sample size needed?  If you do the math (with the usual assumption, of course), the answer is surprisingly small (500+ is enough in most cases).

dye

回覆 124# 沙文

In Hong Kong, they live in apartment (or flat).  An apartment with 10 rooms is luxurious (in term of cost), spacious (if you are talk to a real estate agent), ridiculously wasteful (if you ask me).  

I would think "large" would be appropriate for an apartment.   I think this is what he has in mind.
----------
The idea of 10 doors is merely a "poor copy" of the famous celestial teapot argument (which is sound).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

dye

If I were 抽刀斷水, I would "answer" very differently.  

The problem is that the God is not a golden egg.  He did something very visible on earth (example, global flood, creating stars, etc), and promise something visible if follow the "instructions"!  Look at the Book of Job, God agrees on this logic to show to Job his powers.

If there is an analogy, it would be like finding a raging fire behind a veil.  If we feel any heat raging out, we can already conclude there is no raging fire (fire maybe, but not a raging one).  We do not need to pierce the veil to prove that, do we?

Rather, if we do feel the heat, we may not be ready to conclude the existence of a raging fire.  For all we care, it can be from a electric heater.

Sometimes, it is harder to prove an existence than a non-existence.  In this case, check this out (to prove its non-existence)
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

沙文

回覆 126# dye

I know, but his intention is to introduce this to the English world. People will take a house if they want a roomy residence there, rather than a penthouse in downtown.
In our real estate dictionary, a room is a kitchen, a bedroom, a living room, a dining room, a family room, an office or a den. It is not difficult to find a house with 10 rooms.

抽刀斷水

真的謝謝你們，只怪我讀書時不肯好好用功學英文啦。
稍後在冷靜的環境下再細看你們的評論丫。

dye

回覆  dye

I know, but his intention is to introduce this to the English world. People will take a  ...
沙文 2014/4/15 11:47 提交

You are right.  I forget that part.

沙文

The idea of 10 doors is merely a "poor copy" of the famous celestial teapot argument (which is sound).
dye 發表於 2014/4/14 17:59

Can't agree more.
This 10 door house is just too complicated. I think argument of the existence of unicorn is much better, plain and simple, understandable to everybody.

dye

純搞笑，不喜歡勿理:

一間大屋內, 有 10 間房, 全部房門都是關上的.
問題 1> 若要証明其中一間房內住着染色大師, 你最少要開多少度門呢?
問題 2> 若要証明所有房間內沒有住着染色大師, 你最少要開多少度門呢?

答案:
1> 若你開第一度門便找到染色大師, 便無需再開第二度門. 最少,只需開一度門.
2> 若要証明所有房間內沒有染色大師, 你必需全部開啟, 只要有一度門未開, 都唔能夠証明沒有.
推論: 要証明一樣o野 "存在" 一定比証明 "不存在" 容易.

-------------------
但如果染色大師已站在你旁邊，你仍需要開度門去證明他不在裏面嗎?

特別係:

如果你肯定染色大師正在大聲念經，而你在門外聽不到念經聲，你仍需要開度門去證明他不在裏面嗎? (如果你聽到念經聲，你仍得開度門去證明念經的不是沙大人，對不? )

推論:要証明一樣o野 "不存在" 有時又比証明 "存在" 容易.

據聖經說法，上帝念經都念得好大聲下。

dye

話說有次沙大人同染色傾緊野時，羅紗蓮怒氣冲冲衝入房

羅紗蓮:「沙文你呃我，你心裏面仲有其他女人！」(又或，你心裏面存在其他女人)
沙大人:「冇呀！」
染色:「邊個女人?我去街度捉晒D女人去同沙大人對質，以示清白！」

染色衝了出去後，沙大人將羅紗蓮一擁入懷
沙大人:「有了你，我心裏存得下其他女人嗎?」
羅紗蓮:「我不信。」
沙大人:「如其有其他女人，他們會找上門。除了你，你見有其他女人找上門嗎?」
羅紗蓮:「....」(羅紗蓮嘴被封了，請看倌自行推理是誰封了羅紗蓮的嘴)

後記：
結果染色找遍天下女子去證明沙大人心裏沒其他女人。要證明「其他女人」的不存在，果然是難。

抽刀斷水

十度門的故事可以逐步逐步把讀者思想引進其局中，但unicorn, teapot, 飛行意粉怪就沒有這個效果。

基本上簡單地一個本土田雞真神（十度門的故事原作者）也是有unicorn等的效果呢。

沙文

羅紗蓮:「沙文你呃我，你心裏面仲有其他女人！」(又或，你心裏面存在其他女人)
dye 發表於 2014/4/15 21:06

「當然有....她就是....我和妳的愛女。」

「我們還未有女兒？這還不容易，我們現在馬上搞一個出來.....」

抽刀斷水

要四處宣揚呢個 "可能存在,亦可能不存在" 的東西, 更加.......哈哈. 不知算什麼.

And, I don't know how to describe for someone who spreads around the thing that "may or may not exist". <--
I really don't know how to describe something "may or may not exist".

原意是指對於四處宣揚的這種人，不知怎去形容，而非不知怎去形容這種或者存在的東西。

dye

Someone who describe something as "may or may not exist":

Statisticians

And some physicists.

沙文

回覆 136# 抽刀斷水

For those people who spread around this "may or may not exist" thing, I really don't know what to say.

抽刀斷水

搬了上網了：

http://vscfaq.antichristendom.com/index_en.htm
謹此感謝各方好友的協助。