本帖最後由 dior13dior13 於 2014/2/3 02:37 編輯
2007-10-07 18:04:18 刀刀刀
話又說回來~
推羅與尼王之間的戰爭最後是以「議和」作為結束~
推羅最後也沒有像預言所說的被尼王給整得那麼悽慘~
而且推羅從尼王攻打、議和到尼王掛掉再到亞歷山大攻打、亞歷山大駕崩到安提柯一世又再度攻打~~
推羅的地位一直都只是一個「城邦」！
城邦並不像是近代的國家組織，而是像屬於自治的城市，因此那段期間並沒有所謂的推羅國或推羅市~就像沒有雅典國、雅典市或是斯巴達國或斯巴達市~~
由此可知自爽王能夠蒿洨出所謂的『古推羅國』其自爽功力當真是無人可及、不可臆測~~
這玩意要是真能用來替預言落空來辯護，才真真正正的牛頭不對馬嘴~~
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2007-10-07 16:15:21 刀刀刀
自爽王似乎還沒發現sowhat2002的內容其實是衝著牠來的喔~~沒想到自爽王連用來看的眼睛也有辦法自爽~~
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2007-10-07 15:50:35 mocear
sowhat2002說尼布甲尼薩「圍困」環水推羅13年，有說打進去了？
想打，但是沒海軍只能在海邊瞪眼瞪13年，這就是尼布甲尼薩「沒打」推羅的史實。
自爽王再度表現出他語文能力的低落。
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2007-10-07 15:41:10 HI客任務 拯救白目
引述路西法2007-10-07 15:28:30之意見：【想攻打環水推羅，跟因為欠缺海軍結果打不下環水推羅，哪裡有矛盾？】
老莫說尼王攻打的是陸上推羅而非環水推羅因尼王無海軍故無法打環水推羅。但餿猾2002卻說尼王攻打的是環水推羅而非大陸推羅。這還不矛盾？我看是你白墓搞不清楚狀況。
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2007-10-07 15:28:30 路西法
哪裡可笑？
想攻打環水推羅，跟因為欠缺海軍結果打不下環水推羅，哪裡有矛盾？
果真是名副其實的自婊王～
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2007-10-07 15:21:07 HI客任務 拯救白目
更可笑的是莫西亞文章說尼王沒海軍所以沒法攻打環水推羅，但sowhat2002卻又說尼王攻打的是環水推羅。我看你們兩個先互打算了。哈哈哈。
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2007-10-07 15:18:07 HI客任務 拯救白目 前往HI客任務 拯救白目的日誌
你是要白目到幾時？推羅國正如預言所說不再有，後來的推羅乃是推羅市（推羅城）並非推羅國。把推羅市鎮當成推羅國，這像把現代中國領域當成古代中國領域般荒唐、也像把臺北縣當成臺北市一樣烏龍！！就像【台中】的範圍在清朝、日據時代、現今等都有差異，日月潭曾在台中，但現今日月潭已不在台中而在南投。
若有人拿現今日月潭在南投來駁斥過去日月潭在台中，豈不是無知？
同理現在的推羅城已非古推羅國，現今的推羅已不能代表兩三千年前的推羅國，你若拿現今推羅城有人來駁斥推羅國的預言，那就真是牛頭不對馬嘴。
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2007-10-03 19:53:24 turbulence
沒辦法啊！因為自HI找不到他要的"直系證據" XD
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2007-10-03 17:48:55 魔鬼辯護律師
可笑的地方就在於：推羅明明就還存在，只是和三千多年前有許多不同而已，自爽蟑螂（ＨＩ）卻在那裡狂叫［推羅毀滅了！聖經應驗了！］
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2007-10-02 19:27:53 別需打嘴砲了
任何地方都有著變遷，推羅也不例外
推羅國、推羅城、推羅市、大陸推羅、海上推羅、...在範圍與地點皆有差異
把它們搞混 豈不是可笑?
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2006-11-15 17:37:28 sowhat2002
Tyre, Lebanon
From Wikipedia
Tyre (Arabic صور Ṣūr, Phoenician Ṣur, Hebrew צור Tzor, Tiberian Hebrew צר Ṣōr, Akkadian Ṣurru, Greek Τύρος Týros) is a city in the South Governorate of Lebanon. With 117,100 inhabitants, Tyre juts out from the coast of the Mediterranean Sea, about 23 miles north of Acre, and 20 miles south of Sidon. The name of the city means "rock" [1]. The adjective for Tyre is Tyrian, and the inhabitants are Tyrians.
Tyre is an ancient Phoenician city. Today it is the fourth largest city in Lebanon [4] and houses one of the nation's major ports. Tyre is a popular destination for tourists. The city has many ancient sites, including its Roman Hippodrome which was was added to UNESCO's list of World Heritage Sites in 1979 (Resolution 459).[2]
History
"The location of the city of Tyre is not in doubt, for it exists to this day on the same spot and is known as Sur." (Katzenstein, H.J., The History of Tyre, 1973, p9) Tyre originally consisted of two distinct urban centers, one on an island and the other on the adjacent coast (approximately 30 stadia apart or 3.5 miles according to Strabo in his Geography xvi, 2), before Alexander the Great connected the island to the coast during his siege of the city. One was a heavily fortified island city amidst the sea (with defensive walls 150 feet high)[5] and the latter, originally called Ushu (later, Palaetyrus, by the Greeks) was actually more like a line of suburbs than any one city and was used primarily as a source of water and timber for the main island city.......(下略，url：http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon)
從以上資所見，現代推羅位於古代推羅的“same spot”，海島才是主城。大陸部分本來叫做“Ushu”，而另一個名稱“Palaetyrus”是後來才有，只不過是推羅（就是神棍們的所謂“環水推羅”）的近郊，我之前說它是衛星城市已抬舉了它。
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2006-11-15 13:48:06 sowhat2002
推羅本來就是海島（「環水推羅」）（續）
TYRE (Phoen. and Hebr. ="rock," Assyr. Surru, Egypt. Dara, Early Lat. Sarra), the most famous city of Phoenicia. It is now represented by the petty town of Sur (about 5,000 inhabitants), built round the harbour at the north end of a peninsula, which till the time of Alexander's siege was an island, without water or vegetation. The mole which he constructed has been widened by deposits of sand, so that the ancient island is now connected with the mainland by a tongue of land a quarter of a mile broad.
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Tyre
（根據 http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/TUM_VAN/TYRE_Phoen_and_Hebr_rock_Assyr_.html ，上述資料“Originally appearing in Volume V27, Page 549 of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica.”）
抄多一句耶經經文：
他們哀號的時候，為你作起哀歌哀哭，說：有何城如推羅？有何城如他在海中成為寂寞的呢？（結 27:32，和合）
In their wailing they raise a lamentation for you, and lament over you: ‘Who was ever destroyed like Tyre in the midst of the sea?（Ezek. 27:32, NRSV）
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2006-11-15 09:48:34 司馬駕神
總之一切都是那個自爽王再自High九對了嘛！
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2006-11-14 22:13:23 真‧苗字帶刀
感謝賜教！拜讀！
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2006-11-14 20:58:52 sowhat2002
耶經經文及各文獻的推羅都是海島，換句話，說「推羅是『大陸推羅』」及「『環水推羅』是在『大陸推羅』被毀才取而代之」，是徹頭徹尾的謊言。「大陸推羅」被稱為「Ushu」或「Palaeotyre」，從未被稱為「Tyre」，它只是推羅的衛星城市。
另外，尼王用 13 年圍困的是「環水推羅」而並非他們用來冒充推羅的所謂「大陸推羅」，「大陸推羅」很早便為了推羅的安全而放棄。尼王從未攻進推羅，更遑論毀滅推羅。說「尼王圍攻『大陸推羅』十三年」，是公然篡改歷史。
推羅當然還在那裡！從 http://www.earthspots.com/ExploreEarthSpot.php?NID=1211&MT=1 的那張衛星圖看，不但在左邊包括西頓港在內的部分建滿房屋，就連右邊也有不少房屋。右邊的位置，如果根據大英百科全書等資料的描述，應該就是古代推羅對岸大陸的部分。所以不但推羅沒有被毀，即使以他們用來冒充推羅的所謂「大陸推羅」的那個衛星城市 Ushu（或 Palaeotyre）也已重建。
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2006-11-14 18:26:22 路西法
恩～經文指的是環水推羅，然後呢？
這個推羅還是在那邊，不是嗎？
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2006-11-14 17:03:04 sowhat2002
In the correspondence from El Amarna, Tyre is described for the first time as a monarchy, enjoying prestige and political influence. The establishment at this date of a great satellite city on the mainland - Ushu or Palaeotyre - no doubt reflects a demographic highpoint in that Canaanite state, even though its king, Abi-Milki, is already alluding in his letters to a certain political crisis in the interior of his territory and to a situation of generalized insurrection in the Syrian cities, in the face of the apparant in difference, if not impotence, of Egypt. (The Phoenicians and the West: Politics, Colonies, and Trade, Second Edition, by Maria Eugenia Aubet, translated by Mary Turton, Cambridge University Press, p.23)
In antiquity, Tyre was an island 'in the midst of the sea' (Ezekiel 27:32). Legend talls that the city was founded on two rocks joined together by the roots of a sacred olive tree. According to Tyrian sources, Hiram I joined the two original islands in order to enlarge the city. (Ibid., p.34)
For much of the 18th and 7th centuries the town was subject to Assyria, and in 585-573 it successfully withstood a prolonged siege by the Babylonian king Nebuchadrezzar II......Alexander's causeway, which was never removed, converted the island into a peninsula.(The New Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol 12, 2003, p. 91)
The silted up harbour on the south side of the peninsula has been excavated by the French Institute for Archaeology in the Near East, but the most of the remains of the Phoenician period still lie beneath the present town. Pop. (1982 est.) 23,000. (Ibid., p.92)
Population of Tyre, Lebanon:
117,100 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre%2C_Lebanon)
117,000 (http://nndb.com/geo/824/000120464)
110,000 (http://www.fita.org/countries/lebanon.html?ma_rubrique=cadre)
Sea Peoples and the Phoenicians
by Sanford Holst
http://www.phoenician.org/sea_peoples.htm
Tyre was one of the leading Phoenician cities in 1200 B.C., and we are fortunate to have an excellent archaeological study of this site which went all the way down to bedrock. Performed by Patricia Bikai in 1973, this work documented clearly the relevant layers of interest to us.[vii] They not only show there was no widespread destruction at that time but that there was great continuity from layer to layer, indicating that the local society continued to live in the same way throughout this period. The results are highly conclusive.
關於上文的作者 Sanford Holst：
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford_Holst
Sanford Holst (b. 1946) is an historian who specializes in world history and particularly the ancient Mediterranean. His most significant work is on the Phoenicians, whom he has studied for thirty years. He is the author of Phoenicians: Lebanon's Epic Heritage (2005) which is an extensive history of these people and their society. He also has written academic papers on the ancient Mediterranean.
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2006-11-14 12:36:00 sowhat2002
經文所說的推羅是海島：26:5 她必在海中（in the midst of the sea - RSV）作曬網的地方……27:4 你的境界在海中……（Your borders are in the heart of the seas......） Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15109a.htm)：On the other hand, it is impossible to state which of the two cities, Palaetyrus, on the sea-coast, or Tyrus, built on a rocky island 1968 feet above the sea, existed first. It is generally held, however, that the continental preceded the insular city. The reference in Josue (xix, 29) is not exactly identified, but in the El-Amarna Letters the island is referred to, unless the Egyptians who occupied all the seaboard cities had not subjected it also to their dominion. 續推羅是海島：In an inscription from Assur, Asarhaddon declares:‘I captured Tyre which is in the midst of the sea....[57]’
[57] ARAB, II 710; IAKA, 57.
(Sabatino Moscati, translated by Alastair Hamilton, The World of the Phoenicians, English paperback edition, 1999, p.21) 同書另一段：Under Assurbanipal (668-626), Baal of Tyre rebelled again:In my third campaign I marched against Baal, king of Tyre, who dwells in the midst of the sea, when he did not observe my royal command and did not obey the word of my lips. I threw up earthworks against him, by sea and land I seized his approaches.....[59]
[59]ARAB, II, 779
(p.22)ARAB = D. D. Luckenbill, Ancient Records of Assyria and Babylonia, 2 vols (Chicago, 1926-7);
IAKA = R. Borger, Die Inschriften Asarhaddons Koenigs von Assyrien, (Graz, 1956) 西頓港（推羅的北港）自古已存在：The chronology and physical configuration of Tyre's two harbours has been the subject of much debate. The Northern ('Sidonian') port, the earlier of the two, functioned as the sole harbour facility in Hiram's own day. The southern ('Egyptian') was constructed at a later day; it development is traditionally ascribed to the King Ithobaal I (887-856 BC). (Peoples of the Past: Phoenicians by Glenn Markoe, British Museum Press, p.198) 以下照片是從北向南攝影，西頓港就在照片下部，無論如何，該港都是在市區：http://www.freethought-forum.com/images/sauron/tyre1.jpghttp://www.freethought-forum.com/images/sauron/tyre2.jpg" border="0"> 被尼布甲尼撒圍困 13 年的是「環水推羅」：The neo-Babylonian conqueror, Nebuchadnezzar II, subjected the island to a 13-year siege (585-572) without success. (The Encyclopedia Americana, Vol. 27, 1984, p. 331) 被尼布甲尼撒圍困 13 年的是「環水推羅」（續）：Around 585 BC, Nebuchadnezzar undertook his famous 13-year siege of Tyre, which had apparently resisted his advances in the previous campaign. This long operation - in reality, a land blockade of the island city - should be understood as a strategem of containment rather than as a continuous, concerted attack. (Such an interpretation may explain why the event receives no mention in the official Babylonian Chronicles.) (Peoples of the Past: Phoenicians by Glenn Markoe, British Museum Press, p.48)
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2006-11-12 20:03:16 魔鬼的辯護律師
http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/Hong_Kong_pol98.jpg
其實可以用香港這個類似的例子來做解釋<推羅沒被毀滅<這是事實<也是聖經跳票的證據之一~~
但是為什麼HI還能唬爛呢??
因為他把推羅硬分成兩塊<(其實海上推羅和陸上推羅根本就是一個城市!)
照他的鬼扯邏輯<只要九龍毀滅了<就等同[香港市整個毀滅]了??
夠好笑吧??
假如聖經的[預言應驗]只是這種狗屁水準<那我是不是可以說金門被毀滅了<代表[整個中華民國]都被毀滅了??
誰都知道<中華民國目前領土=台灣+澎湖+馬祖+金門<除非打下台灣本島<不然根本不算毀滅中華民國
推羅也一樣<海中推羅+陸上推羅才=推羅市<請問HI拿出證據:尼布甲尼撒何時把這兩個部分都毀滅了??
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2006-11-10 22:10:17 路西法
既然推羅的預言跟尼科二世無關....
那麼又是那個笨蛋把卡赫米什跟推羅的預言扯在一起？
居然有人連卡赫米什之役是誰跟尼布甲尼撒打仗都不知道？
既然連這都不知道，還學人在踹什麼？踹自己的厚臉皮嗎？
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2006-11-10 21:55:41 真‧苗字帶刀
以西結只有打馬後炮跟胡扯而已~
真正有毛病的是那個把「卡爾赫米什戰役」ㄠ作以西結預言實現的蠢柴！
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