未成年少女, 女生, 男子

抽刀斷水

18/01/2008

警方在荃灣掃黃期間，揭發駭人聽聞的小學師生風化案。探員掩至一間時鐘別墅查牌時，踢爆一名五十二歲已婚男教師，正與十一歲的同校女生開房尋歡，探員大吃一驚，將涉嫌與未成年少女發生性關係的男教師拘捕。消息稱，案中女童缺乏父愛，疑有人對女童特別關愛而發生不倫之戀，每次開房都會支付一百元給女童。警方要求學校提供涉案男教師過去三年教過的學生名單，以追查是否涉及更多學生。

關係親密曾遭校方警告

疑涉案的男子姓趙，五十二歲，已婚，育有一子，自九七年開始在一間教會小學任教英文科，因他接受過特殊教育訓練，故獲准為有學習障礙的學生輔導功課，因他有多年教學經驗，為人樂觀，又經常主動發言，故有好好先生之稱。據校方透露，案中女童是新移民，來自單親家庭，加上母親經常返內地，可能她渴望得到父愛。涉案的姓趙男教師在上學年曾做過該女童的班主任，去年五月，校方接到投訴，指該女童與趙姓男教師表現親密，疑兩人關係不尋常。學校於是展開秘密調查，並分別約見兩名事主，女童稱兩人的關係猶如父親與女兒。而男事主則稱因女童身體不適，所以讓她身體緊挨著他，並無其他不正常關係。校方最終向男教師發出勸喻書，令他慎重處理師生間關係，且應讓女教師處理有關問題。雖然事件早有端倪，但校方昨日接到警方通知後大為震驚。

探員查房揭床被發現女童

消息透露，警方趁年近歲晚，展開全港性反罪惡行動，其中荃灣警區特別職務隊前日在區內展開掃黃行動，並到區內時鐘別墅等場所查牌。前日下午五時許至深夜，突擊搜查八處地點，其中一隊特別職務隊探員於晚上六時許，掩至眾安街一間別墅查牌，並逐間房調查，在一間尾房外敲門良久卻未有回應，於是要求職員協助打開房門，探員發現房內有一名中年男子神色慌張，探員揭開床被，赫見一名滿臉稚氣的女童，有人聲稱兩人是情侶關係，但探員初步調查後，證實該名女童年僅十一歲，兩人更是師生關係，因案件涉及未成年少女及案情特殊，探員將男教師帶署扣查，女童則送院檢驗。

據別墅職員稱，案中男女前來開房時，男行前，女尾隨其後，因當時女方的長髮遮面，又著高跟鞋，故看不清她樣貌是否似未成年。消息稱，警方懷疑涉案男女的不倫關係已維持一段時間，男教師對女童亦照顧有加，每次開房後都會給女童一百元。鑑於案件敏感，新界南總區虐兒案件調查組跟進。

警方新界南總區刑事總部陳國強高級警司昨日接受查詢時，證實拘捕一名五十二歲男子，懷疑與一宗與未成年人士發生性行為案件有關，疑犯仍在扣查中，詳情不便透露。該校校長向本報表示，接獲警方通知後已即時開會商討跟進，因涉案男教師牽涉刑事案件，已給予他十四日假期作為過渡，若他最終被起訴，會將他停職，校方知悉事件後非常震驚，同時已通知社工跟進他曾任教過各班別的學生，追查有否其他受害者，並會配合警方調查。

http://orientaldaily.on.cc/new/new_a03cnt.html

抽評：任教教會學校小學，是教徒的機會較大。不過，兩情相悅是否要受到年齡限制？社會道德普遍認為男教師[乙水]女童，其實也可能是女童引誘男教師（如電影《Lolita》的劇情）。唉，這教師衰十一就相當大鑊了！

隨處發瘋

原帖由 抽刀斷水 於 2008-1-18 10:39 發表
18/01/2008

警方在荃灣掃黃期間，揭發駭人聽聞的小學師生風化案。探員掩至一間時鐘別墅查牌時，踢爆一名五十二歲已婚男教師，正與十一歲的同校女生開房尋歡，探員大吃一驚，將涉嫌與未成年少女發生性關係的男教師拘捕。消息稱 ...

未必,有好多教徒好似我.鍾意『扮晒野』架嗎!
呢種人真係『低』! 好心就唔好係香港開房啦! 應該好似我口甘, 同條仔離開香港,然後去澳門或大陸開房
口甘就唔唔會比人發覺啦!

(哈哈! 我遠在外國的男友都唔知架!)

[ 本帖最後由 隨處發瘋 於 2008-1-18 20:32 編輯 ]

訪客得得b

抽評：任教教會學校小學，是教徒的機會較大。不過，兩情相悅是否要受到年齡限制？社會道德普遍認為男教師[乙水]女童，其實也可能是女童引誘男教師（如電影《Lolita》的劇情）。唉，這教師衰十一就相當大鑊了！

b評：我不同意女童引誘男教師這觀點，一個十一歲女童縱使早熟，對性有好奇，都不至於會色誘男教師那麽誇張。她可能嘗向男教師請教一些關於性的問題，致令男教師有機可乘。小朋友是不知道甚麽是對，甚麽是錯的，亦不知道如何選擇，所以才需要設立教育。

呢單衰十一案，不是一些十七歲青年與十五歲女朋友，偷食禁果那麽單純。如果男教師最後被成功檢控，刑期會長很多的。

[ 本帖最後由 訪客得得b 於 2008-1-18 16:06 編輯 ]

prussianz

原帖由 抽刀斷水 於 2008-1-18 10:39 發表
18/01/2008

警方在荃灣掃黃期間，揭發駭人聽聞的小學師生風化案。探員掩至一間時鐘別墅查牌時，踢爆一名五十二歲已婚男教師，正與十一歲的同校女生開房尋歡，探員大吃一驚，將涉嫌與未成年少女發生性關係的男教師拘捕。消息稱 ...

sorry ,
i did just swim hither[[[[[to-here]] from 'the above-side ,
what's ,,（乙水）'' ??h:

.a. （乙水）= ,,,,,second-waters''''' ??
.b. （乙水）= ,,,,,second-waters-fish''''' ??
.c. （乙水）= ,,,,,second-class-of-waters''''' ??
.d. （乙水）= ,,,,,second-class-of-waters-fish''''' ?? which 1's correct ??

ThANKye


[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-1-18 17:49 編輯 ]

抽刀斷水

[乙水]，音[tum]，一個電腦打不到的中文字。如澳門有個地方叫[乙水]仔，Ｄ人成人[乙水]女仔。

沙文



睇得到嗎？

weakest

But, I think it is possible for the girl to 引誘 the teacher. It is particularly strange that the teacher give the girl $$ after having sex (or just 開房without doing anything?? God knows...)....

抽刀斷水

睇唔到。

覆b評：留意「而男事主則稱因女童身體不適，所以讓她身體緊挨著他，並無其他不正常關係。」這句在我看來女童是主動。當然，這事在法律上及現今道德上是不容許的，只是我認為一面倒指責男教師未免太武斷而已。

訪客得得b

原帖由 抽刀斷水 於 2008-1-19 01:07 發表
睇唔到。

覆b評：留意「而男事主則稱因女童身體不適，所以讓她身體緊挨著他，並無其他不正常關係。」這句在我看來女童是主動。當然，這事在法律上及現今道德上是不容許的，只是我認為一面倒指責男教師未免太武斷而已。 ...

你快ｄ收番呢句說話，女童驗身後就能採集証據，事情是絕不存在灰色地帶的。

[ 本帖最後由 訪客得得b 於 2008-1-19 01:39 編輯 ]

抽刀斷水

「只是我認為一面倒指責男教師未免太武斷而已」→當然在警方科學鑑證下是可以找到證據，但明顯傳媒及社會早已判了這男教師的罪。搞到咁大，實要佢祭旗啦。原來此乃「衰十三」（與十四歲以下少女發生性行為），罪名等同強姦，可判終身，睇下牧師求情信、感化官同心理評估做得好唔好啦。

但假如真的是女童的引誘，而這位好好先生的男教師久旱之下難以招架，真是可憐呢。

果然色字頭上一把刀！

訪客得得b

常言道法律不外乎人情。

男教師如果是完全主導整個事情，當真值得判終生監禁兩次啦。

但假如真的是女童引誘他的話，確是情有可原，判終生監禁作罷好了。

weakest

But..........can find the 証據 of who is 主動??

dye

The question is silimiar to the relationship between the doctor and the patient.  (Or priest and altar boy )  The relationship is one of trust.

The girl is NOT old enough to make a rational choice!  By placing one girl underage to make the choice, we will have to place all the girl of the same age and older to make the same choice because we have no mind reader to check for maturity.  If the age is in disputed, people can always appeal to the representative in the government for a change of law.

When her guardian places her under the trust of the teacher, They probably expect the teacher to behave professionally and do not take advantage with his position as a teacher.  

A similiar situation arise when a patient listens to a doctor.about his sickness.  The patient expects the doctor to behave professionally and not tell lies for whatever reason the doctor has.

The deeper impact behind all these is that if doctors tell lie, would anyone believe the doctors?
If the teachers are allow to "temper" with his/her student, who would leave their children to the teacher?  (Would you leave your childen beside a heavy machinery in the factory?)

Therer is indeed a practical reason behind the law.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-1-19 09:27 編輯 ]

weakest

I think the children nowadays are very 早熟 (perhaps because children have to face competition in very young ages, e.g. for competition for places of good schools). Therefore, I believe those children in secondary school (even if in Form 1) (and even some senior primary school students) could make their own rational choice (of course, they may be lack of experience when compared to those much older (e.g. 40 years old)). As such, I see this case as 2 rational people doing something like a pair of couple. Therefore, I don't know if the girl takes the initiate (it is heard that the chance of successful "chasing" would be higher if the girl takes the initiate). I personally don't mind others fall in love with each other even if there is a great difference in ages. However, If the teacher really did something against the law (衰11), he should be prepared to bear the legal consequences.

P.S.: I really feel that it is strange for the teacher to give $100 to the girl after 開房. If the teacher just wants to give some $$ to the girl, why just pay the $$ after 開房? Is it because the girl knows that she provides a good to the teacher, and thus ask for compensation? Or is it because of the teacher just treat the girl as a sexual service provider???

[ 本帖最後由 weakest 於 2008-1-19 14:38 編輯 ]

個牙SIR係好人泥+!!!佢對男仔定女仔都咁好!!!!

dye

If the majority agree that girl can make rational choice on sex, pregency, etc... , they can refect their opinion to their government representative and have the law changed.  The age of concent is different for different era and differemt places.  

When a woman has sex, there is a certain possibility that she will get pregnant (even with a condom, there is still a little chance due to misuse).  I doubt a grade 6-7 student has the experience nor physical ability to handle the situation properly. What does it mean to make a rational choice?  At least the 11-year old must have some idea of all the consequences of her action (STD, pregenancy, etc).  Is she prepared to rear a baby when she have sex?  Even if she is prepare for the child, will she has the financial means to raise the child? A law is made for a case in general , Is an average 11 years old prepare for all that?

However, while the law is in place, I think it must be kept.

For the money, I would rather not guess at the intention as we still have not have a mind detector yet.  Maybe it just happens to be after the act?  Coincidence.  Perhaps he also give her gift and money at other time, this is just one of those time?

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-1-19 15:42 編輯 ]

dye

I generally agree with Uncle B on "呢單衰十一案，不是一些十七歲青年與十五歲女朋友，偷食禁果那麽單純。如果男教師最後被成功檢控，刑期會長很多的。"

The difference is 3 fold:
1) Whereas it may be 2 person under the age of consent, in this case, it is only one.  The older one should have know better.

2) The relation is one of trust.  The child is placed under the protection of the teacher and professional behaviour is expected.

3) The girl is way below the age of consent and is far from the grey area of age.

-------------
If they are truely in love, they have the obvious option of waiting till the girl is 18 to do it.  It is only 7 years of wait.  NO ONE is charging them because of their age difference.  If the girl is 18, we do not have a case.  Quite a few famous men has a very young wife and the society is not one sided about it.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-1-19 15:57 編輯 ]

weakest

I also agree with you on the factual prediction that the teacher would be severely punished in this case. After all, the age difference, and the teacher's profession would make the society believe that he is extremely unacceptable.

But I do have different view on the children about their "rationality". It seems that the children would be more dared to express their ideas, and to object something that they think is bad even if when they are young. For example, the children would always appeals to 虐兒 if someone wants to punish them for mis-behavior. This shows that they are more tough in defending themselves. Therefore, I believe that they would be more tough in protecting themselves from unwanted sexual disturbance. As such, I believe that the children would have rational believe in considering the choice of "having sex" and "not to have sex".
Of course, the girl may miss out the possibility of being pregnant (of course, she may be aware of this risk also, but she may just choose to take the risk since the risk is too low. But after all, we are not her, we don't know if she do really aware of that risk...), but even if she miss out this possibility, many older people do miss out this possibility as well. Many people have sex is not for baby, and thus adopt some measures to avoid getting a baby, but as you said, the probability of getting baby is not zero even if these measures are adopted. But for those older people who choose to have sex like this case, it seems that less people would blame them for their "irrational" behaviours. And for those older people, many of them are without sufficient income to raise up a baby also (e.g. low income people, graduate students, etc.), but it is necessary for them to have enough income for raise the baby before they can have sex, it seems that just a few portion of people are eligible to have sex...For me, it is just a matter of "cost-benefit comparison" of their own choice. Once they make their own choice as they think the expected benefit is greater, why should we intervene them? Of course, they should bear their own responsibility if their action leads to some undesirable outcome.
In addition, many girls would just have sex with their boyfriends after the boys ask for sex skillfully, therefore, even if the teacher takes the initiate to ask the girls for sex, I would treat this case similar as those pairs in "normal ages" (except that the teacher should bear the legal punishment, at least).

Of course, if the teacher did something against the law set, he should be prepared to bear legal punishment. That's rule of law. But is it the case that every law would coincide with the moral principles of the society?

[ 本帖最後由 weakest 於 2008-1-19 16:59 編輯 ]

prussianz

原帖由 抽刀斷水 於 2008-1-18 10:39 發表
18/01/2008

警方在荃灣掃黃期間，揭發駭人聽聞的小學師生風化案。探員掩至一間時鐘別墅查牌時，踢爆一名五十二歲已婚男教師，正與十一歲的同校女生開房尋歡，探員大吃一驚，將涉嫌與未成年少女發生性關係的男教師拘捕。消息稱 ...

>>>> 抽評：任教教會學校小學，是教徒的機會較大。

o yes ,
that 教會學校小學 would have already prescribed from 'the very beginning
that any 教師-applicant should////must b a Christian教徒 in 'the recruitments ads

dye

I said, society do not punish him because of their age difference, but because the girl is young.  If the girl is 18, even if their age difference remain the same, there will be no charge laid,

The question is do they have the opportunity of getting th knowledge.  At the age of 18, everyone should have pass through the mandatory education, and should have the chance to know about most of the risk involved in the act.  At the age of 11, sex education has hardly started.

It is easy to teach a child to say "no".  Much more difficult is for them to understand the reasons behind it.  Being able to say no to a rapist is very far from having a rational view of sex.  Even baby would have cry when they are mistreated, are they rational about all the pain causing agents?  Do we leave baby besides pool because they will cry as they drown?  

On responsibility, if the girl do get pregnant, she cannot take the responsibility even if she wasnts to.  She is not in the legal age to even work!  If complication occur due to her young age, she is neither able to pay for the extra cost, nor can she take the responsibility of the medical situation she created.    It is simliar to having high blood pressure and getting pregnant.  At least the oldwe woman can claim she is prepare for death (both mother and baby), is the young girl prepare for it?  It is not illegal, but down right irresponsible (assuming she knows the consequences).

The question again, is of chance.  An undergraduate has the chance of raising a child even he do not have enough income for it at the moment.  If the couple has a proper job, they can at least provide food and shelter for the baby.  When worst come to worst, they can move to area with lower standard of living.  However, if the couple are both mentally disabled for example) who are incapable of even feeding themselves, how do they take the responsibility?  With no help, they can only starve the baby to death.  The society cannot just watch the baby dies.  The society is "forced" to pick up the bill (physically and emotionally).  Similiarly, the girl cannot even feed herself and will not be able to do so at least until she can work legally (in 7 years?).

-----------------
Two wrongs do not make a right.  Even if there are irresponsible people who are old, does not make irresponsible behaviour happening in the youth right.  

------------------
If the law do not reflect the moral principle of the majority, it is time to get the opinion across to the government representative.  The law is made for the people and BY the people.

Hong Kong has a Legco, and the government is quite "free" on the discussion of the particular issue.