沙文

reasoning唔掂喎

死同洗有咩喇lung, 都要有得解釋伽。點解係是受洗歸入他的死，而唔係受釘歸入他的死呢？

dye

等等，猷太人自古已有洗禮，在他們自己經內有記錄，不是由約翰所創。約翰那種是屬於入教，特色是要用活水。

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Jewish tradition holds that the first instance of ceremonial cleansing occurred just prior to the giving of the covenant at Mt. Sinai. In Exodus 19:10 The Lord said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their garments." They believe that the consecration and the washing of the garments being mentioned together indicates that both the people and the garments were washed.

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如果耶穌要盡人嘅本分，咁佢又唔結婚生仔?又唔守安息日？

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-7-25 14:20 編輯 ]

Jennifer

老友...consecrate 好似係戒女色咋wor..
"After Moses had gone down the mountain to the people, he consecrated them, and
they washed their clothes, the he said to the people "repare yourselves for the third
day. ABSTAIN FROM SEXUAL RELATIONS ". (Exodus 19: 14-15)

洗衫都可以係潔淨嘅意思...不過個人認為出發點同洗禮有少少唔同 (洗衫 = 整好自己儀容
迎"十戒" (Exodus 20 = 頒佈十戒) ；洗禮 = 潔淨自己嘅罪迎"聖靈"入主內心) 我諗呢d都有
少少link到耶穌成日講話自己要黎 "成全" 律法 (i.e. 洗衫 = 外表上的潔淨以及嚴守律法 vs
洗禮 = 內心的潔淨以及獲得自由--不再被罪管轄)

至於安息日，好似係因為耶穌要特登寸d 法利賽人淨係攬住律法做人而特登高調唔守嘅...
亦好似因為咁而令佢地對耶穌動左殺機？ (hee hee我懶 "抄" 聖經...你有興趣嘅就自己搵下
啦... )

不過，個人認為上述都只係神學家美化信仰而 "創造" 出黎嘅觀念啫...咁學你話齍，耶穌
又唔結婚生仔，咁佢都冇"完全"體驗何謂做人 (or "造人"...hohoho) 但係神學觀念太難 "拆解"
「耶穌如果有結婚生仔咁點算？？」呢個問題，所以佢地打死都唔會諗呢個idea 架啦...
(also see Da Vinci Code... )

死同洗有咩喇lung...洗嗰時浸落水嗰下當自己死左，上番黎咪當復活lor...當然你可以話用
釘十架甚至用張棉胎"冚"住自己再出番黎都冇話唔得，因為都可以象徵 "死亡"，但係冇聖經
back-up嘅論據，就聽俾人 label 異端lor   保羅話要洗你敢唔敢唔洗？

[ 本帖最後由 Jennifer 於 2008-7-25 18:27 編輯 ]

沙文

緊係唔係咁解啦。根本洗禮係Essenes嘅儀式，在演化成基督教的過程中，Essenes的其中一些儀式亦被照搬過來啫。否則幾多嘢唔好做，係都要沖一沖凉，妳估真係貪佢易啲冷傷風咩？

Step.King

咁點解唔將儀成改成和美女教共渡一夜..
d神父同牧師應該都好架...

[ 本帖最後由 Step.King 於 2008-7-26 22:12 編輯 ]

沙文

因為一有大型佈道会，個schedule好難安排。

其實用冲凉代表purify就好多宗教都有，唔知喲猶太佬學边個。我國向來有齋戒沐浴，沐浴係較為慳水環保的，可惜不為大秦景教接納

Step.King

咁就簡單啦....呢d野唔一定要獨處架嘛...
d神職人員米仲happy~

dye

Sure, so Jesus just taunt the Jews to kill him.  It is common for people to have suicidal wish?   If the baptism is set by God as a tradition to follow, so is the Sabath.


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If you wish to know about the Jewish tradition, you have to follow the Jewish intepretation instead of the Christian ones.


"According to rabbinical teachings, which dominated even during the existence of the Temple (Pes. viii. 8), Baptism, next to circumcision and sacrifice, was an absolutely necessary condition to be fulfilled by a proselyte to Judaism (Yeb. 46b, 47b; Ker. 9a; 'Ab. Zarah 57a; Shab. 135a; Yer. Kid. iii. 14, 64d). "

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no



"Consecration is the solemn dedication to a special purpose or service, usually religious. The word "consecration" literally means "setting apart." Persons, places, or things can be consecrated, and the term is used in various ways by different groups."

Even from Christian Catholic theology

"Consecration, in general, is an act by which a thing is separated from a common and profane to a sacred use, or by which a person or thing is dedicated to the service and worship of God by prayers, rites, and ceremonies. "

Or from Dictionary

"Consecrate - dedicated to a sacred purpose"

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Lastly, from KJV



19:15 And he said unto the people, Be ready against the third day: come not at [your] wives.

Apparently 'wives' are replaced with 'sex' in later version

Also Also,

19:15 is only refering to 19:11 from how the text is written in KJV


19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

Apparently God is not interested in seeing their wives evening after everyone get consecrated by baptism.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-7-26 23:42 編輯 ]

沙文

咁呢啲就挾泰山以超北海嘛

Step.King

咁折衷d law  由共渡一宵改為男女教友一齊沖涼~咁efficiency
個牧師又唔駛走咁多場 ~

沙文

我覺得您嘅態度好有問題
您講到啲女教友好似一定要陪訓咁，事實上並非如此嘛
有些堅持保持貞潔的女教友，教會係絕不會强迫佢地做佢地做唔願意做嘅事嘛
例如，我老婆就未試過

情况咁複雜，好難安排嘛

Step.King

我唔係話d女教友好恨訓  係d 神職人員好想咁
我都係道出佢地唔敢上面既agenda jey...
其實咁做都有好處丫...男會員數字可能會暴升...教中姊妹米可以唔駛再愁law