秀雲

原帖由 龍井樹 於 2008-4-22 14:57 發表
我說真神奇，不過是跟你開玩笑。你先讀一讀那篇報導，讀完你就會明白為什麼會出現反效果。原因其實一點都不神奇。

即是知道有人為你祈禱，你就有壓力，你要「有所表現」，唔想衰畀人睇，這樣反而令你的病情差了。此外，當他們知道有專人為自己祈禱時，他們心想：「弊，一定係我個病好嚴重，不然點會無端端有人替我祈禱呢……嘩……好驚呀……」這樣，病情當然差啦。

這也是心靈作用的一部分～～～

dye

You are taking a psychological influence to be spiritual?  That is different.

--------------------
Consider the typial con-artist game, if this is spiritual, I am an Angel.

A 'doctor' is administrating you a bottle of water. (One of the 'alternate medicine popular in UK)
You drink it believing it is medicine.
You feel your sickness is heal afterward.

OR

A Benny Hinn is telling you that God is going to heal your asthma.
You believe him
You feel your sickness is heal afterward.

-------------------------
Do you realize that the person do not need to be prayed for to have the effect?

In any case, playing with placebo is part of medical treatment too.  Only that science tells people the limitation of the technique.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-4-22 16:06 編輯 ]

口琴王

原帖由 prussianz 於 2008-4-22 08:10 發表


早上好，
早晨，菩提草哥哥

,,,,,,,,, 我不敢轻于汝等，汝等皆当作佛！'''''''''

我很喜歡 這句話，是 口琴王 哥哥 作的，

my own version designed for you : :::::
,,,,,,,,, 我不敢轻汝，汝皆当作佛！'''''''''

感謝
感+謝
...

拜托，
不是我作的，
是常不轻菩萨说的。

摘录自妙法莲花经，常不轻菩萨品：

过去有佛，号威音王，神智无量，将导一切， 天人龙神、所共供养。是佛灭后，法欲尽时， 有一菩萨、名常不轻。时诸四众、计著于法。 不轻菩萨、往到其所，而语之言，我不轻汝， 汝等行道，皆当作佛。诸人闻已，轻毁骂詈， 不轻菩萨，能忍受之。其罪毕已，临命终时， 得闻此经，六根清净，神通力故，增益寿命， 复为诸人，广说是经。诸著法众，皆蒙菩萨， 教化成就、令住佛道。不轻命终，值无数佛， 说是经故，得无量福，渐具功德，疾成佛道。 彼时不轻，则我身是。时四部众、著法之者， 闻不轻言、汝当作佛，以是因缘，值无数佛。 此会菩萨、五百之众，并及四部，清信士女， 今于我前，听法者是。我于前世，劝是诸人， 听受斯经，第一之法。开示教人，令住涅槃， 世世受持，如是经典。亿亿万劫，至不可议， 时乃得闻，是法华经。亿亿万劫，至不可议， 诸佛世尊、时说是经。是故行者、于佛灭后， 闻如是经，勿生疑惑。应当一心、广说此经， 世世值佛，疾成佛道。


[ 本帖最後由 口琴王 於 2008-4-22 16:08 編輯 ]

dye

I look at his website.  I look at the section concerning vaccination and go "This is bull"

Vaccination (as a technique) works.  It is proven by numerous experiment and field works.  If he disagrees, please try to learn about it first.

If he still disagree, I suggest he publish a paper on medical journal and get the next Nobel Prize/Shaw Award.

--------------
For example, 病毒打进了人体之后是否真的会产生抗体？
It can be demonstrated by vacination and a blood test afterward.

产生了之后是否真的可以日后防病？
Same as above.

即使可以，有效多久？
Same as above.

口琴王

dye,你的英文好厉害，
看你的文章时，
我要拿着一本字典翻了。

龍井樹

dye 很多字連字典都沒有的, 我通常都懶得讀.

抽刀斷水

原帖由 口琴王 於 2008-4-22 16:47 發表
dye,你的英文好厉害，
看你的文章时，
我要拿着一本字典翻了。

不能輸入中文字，這是缺憾，不值得讚美。

試試用「翻譯」按鈕，可能可減少翻字典的次數。

Nomad

>The major weakness of Chinese medicine as I remember is that fact that they are poisonous in a long run (that is, the medicine will accumulate in you and kills you in the end).  It is a reasonable result for a medical field that is developed without vigorous scientific observation.

Actually, I heard, and personally, saw the reverse - western medicine often ignores long term effect, and heavily rely on techniques that basically abandons part of your body, also medicine corporations are very reluctant to give study to very long term effects (like things happens after, say 20 years) that are neither trival nor easily done in the lab. (In fact, they won't even study for a possible treatment for some stomach ache with anti-biotics when the bio-physics studies so clearly shows that it was caused by a parasite.)
(Seriously, you'll never get to know how disgustingly unprofessional that industry actually is, it really works only because of all the crazy regulations... yet the regulations prevents competition and fuel more unprofessionalness in the industry.)

As far as I know the greatest problem in Chinese medicine are rather the following:

1. That it fails to treat very urgent situations - say, Chinese clinical message can manage your pain without the use of medicine, but can't help your arms when it's cut off. (western surgeons though, have amazing skills at reconnecting dismembered limbs) Similarly, if you're sick to the point of requiring instant medical attention, don't go for the Chinese doctor - their medicine often takes days to work.
2. The quality of Chinese medicine heavily depends on the skill of the doctor - while western medicine have very, very standardized education (to the point where they can train an absolute idiot into your General Doctor in the clinic), Chinese medicine is still seeking that standard language. So while the very skillful doctor may get your asthma without you ever knowing it, the bad one ... well, ranges from killing you 20 years later to killing you the very night you drink his medicine. Guess that's the "long term poison effect" you're talking about. (Often times your statement could mean eating some vegetable can kill you 20 years later ... which is often times what Chinese medicine is)

In fact my Chinese family doctor teaches courses in CUHK, did have this very famous quote: "Nobody knows who is making your medicine and where and how it's made. That's why there're too many fraud medicine everywhere in the world." Well, as good an manifestation of Buddha's teaching it is, I still keep my doctor's word in mind.

prussianz

原帖由 秀雲 於 2008-4-22 10:07 發表
心靈的力量是現代科學難以證明的，我絲毫不低估基督徒祈禱的力量

小姐 對 基教，

雖有不滿 , 但仍客觀,;--^)

感謝敢謝

原帖由 秀雲 於 2008-4-22 14:28 發表


當然，反效果也是效果，這不正說明了心靈的力量嗎？有反效果當然也有正效果，只不過在基教中萬里挑一。不過基教那么多的見證也不一定全是說謊吧。 ...

[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-4-23 08:37 編輯 ]

dye

a) There is a post marketing safety survellience.  No such mechanism is known for Chinese medicine for such a long time.  In mordern medicine, they know about the side effect.

b) Chinese medicine also have branches that deal with emergency.  They have fascinating drug to stop bleeding if you servere your arm (Yun Nan Bai Yau).  

c) If it is modern medicine, someone do know where and how it is made.  It has a manufacturing address, code, and a scientific method.  It has enough information to let you trace back to which batch (whenever you need to know)  Typically on a mordern medicine (besides the code and manufacturer's name)



For Chinese medicine, it depends on which medicine and what company you are buying from. (Typically how it looks like when it is sold, do you have the slightest idea where it is made?)



d) For economic incentive, both are similiar.  At least mordern medicine manufacturer has a reputation to keep, it will give them some incentive to think long term, Chinese medicine are mostly collected some unknown fellow...  If everything depends on a single person ability, and a person only live for 70years (30 years of practise), the person incentive will only be 30 years.  Wheras a company has infinite lifetime, its incentive will be forever at a decreasing rate as risk demolish it.

When mordern medicine causes a side effect, you complain and turn to alternative.  When Chinese medicine causes a side effect, you go to a hospital.

When Chinese medicine goes through the scientific trial and demonstrate it works, it becomes part of mordern medicine (some already has).  When they fail, they remain to be.. Chinese medicine.

-----------------
Don't be mistaken, quite a number of Chinese medicine is not 'herbal' at all.  They are animals (or parts of an animal)

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-4-23 09:26 編輯 ]