不丹

Jennifer

忽發奇想，梵蒂岡會唔會好似不丹咁幫d 名人教徒搞婚禮？

Step.King

我唔係話d女教友好恨訓  係d 神職人員好想咁
我都係道出佢地唔敢上面既agenda jey...
其實咁做都有好處丫...男會員數字可能會暴升...教中姊妹米可以唔駛再愁law

沙文

我覺得您嘅態度好有問題
您講到啲女教友好似一定要陪訓咁，事實上並非如此嘛
有些堅持保持貞潔的女教友，教會係絕不會强迫佢地做佢地做唔願意做嘅事嘛
例如，我老婆就未試過

情况咁複雜，好難安排嘛

Step.King

咁折衷d law  由共渡一宵改為男女教友一齊沖涼~咁efficiency
個牧師又唔駛走咁多場 ~

沙文

咁呢啲就挾泰山以超北海嘛

dye

Sure, so Jesus just taunt the Jews to kill him.  It is common for people to have suicidal wish?   If the baptism is set by God as a tradition to follow, so is the Sabath.


-----------------
If you wish to know about the Jewish tradition, you have to follow the Jewish intepretation instead of the Christian ones.


"According to rabbinical teachings, which dominated even during the existence of the Temple (Pes. viii. 8), Baptism, next to circumcision and sacrifice, was an absolutely necessary condition to be fulfilled by a proselyte to Judaism (Yeb. 46b, 47b; Ker. 9a; 'Ab. Zarah 57a; Shab. 135a; Yer. Kid. iii. 14, 64d). "

-----------------------
no



"Consecration is the solemn dedication to a special purpose or service, usually religious. The word "consecration" literally means "setting apart." Persons, places, or things can be consecrated, and the term is used in various ways by different groups."

Even from Christian Catholic theology

"Consecration, in general, is an act by which a thing is separated from a common and profane to a sacred use, or by which a person or thing is dedicated to the service and worship of God by prayers, rites, and ceremonies. "

Or from Dictionary

"Consecrate - dedicated to a sacred purpose"

---------------
Lastly, from KJV



19:15 And he said unto the people, Be ready against the third day: come not at [your] wives.

Apparently 'wives' are replaced with 'sex' in later version

Also Also,

19:15 is only refering to 19:11 from how the text is written in KJV


19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

Apparently God is not interested in seeing their wives evening after everyone get consecrated by baptism.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-7-26 23:42 編輯 ]

Step.King

咁就簡單啦....呢d野唔一定要獨處架嘛...
d神職人員米仲happy~

沙文

因為一有大型佈道会，個schedule好難安排。

其實用冲凉代表purify就好多宗教都有，唔知喲猶太佬學边個。我國向來有齋戒沐浴，沐浴係較為慳水環保的，可惜不為大秦景教接納

Step.King

咁點解唔將儀成改成和美女教共渡一夜..
d神父同牧師應該都好架...

[ 本帖最後由 Step.King 於 2008-7-26 22:12 編輯 ]

沙文

緊係唔係咁解啦。根本洗禮係Essenes嘅儀式，在演化成基督教的過程中，Essenes的其中一些儀式亦被照搬過來啫。否則幾多嘢唔好做，係都要沖一沖凉，妳估真係貪佢易啲冷傷風咩？

Jennifer

老友...consecrate 好似係戒女色咋wor..
"After Moses had gone down the mountain to the people, he consecrated them, and
they washed their clothes, the he said to the people "repare yourselves for the third
day. ABSTAIN FROM SEXUAL RELATIONS ". (Exodus 19: 14-15)

洗衫都可以係潔淨嘅意思...不過個人認為出發點同洗禮有少少唔同 (洗衫 = 整好自己儀容
迎"十戒" (Exodus 20 = 頒佈十戒) ；洗禮 = 潔淨自己嘅罪迎"聖靈"入主內心) 我諗呢d都有
少少link到耶穌成日講話自己要黎 "成全" 律法 (i.e. 洗衫 = 外表上的潔淨以及嚴守律法 vs
洗禮 = 內心的潔淨以及獲得自由--不再被罪管轄)

至於安息日，好似係因為耶穌要特登寸d 法利賽人淨係攬住律法做人而特登高調唔守嘅...
亦好似因為咁而令佢地對耶穌動左殺機？ (hee hee我懶 "抄" 聖經...你有興趣嘅就自己搵下
啦... )

不過，個人認為上述都只係神學家美化信仰而 "創造" 出黎嘅觀念啫...咁學你話齍，耶穌
又唔結婚生仔，咁佢都冇"完全"體驗何謂做人 (or "造人"...hohoho) 但係神學觀念太難 "拆解"
「耶穌如果有結婚生仔咁點算？？」呢個問題，所以佢地打死都唔會諗呢個idea 架啦...
(also see Da Vinci Code... )

死同洗有咩喇lung...洗嗰時浸落水嗰下當自己死左，上番黎咪當復活lor...當然你可以話用
釘十架甚至用張棉胎"冚"住自己再出番黎都冇話唔得，因為都可以象徵 "死亡"，但係冇聖經
back-up嘅論據，就聽俾人 label 異端lor   保羅話要洗你敢唔敢唔洗？

[ 本帖最後由 Jennifer 於 2008-7-25 18:27 編輯 ]

dye

等等，猷太人自古已有洗禮，在他們自己經內有記錄，不是由約翰所創。約翰那種是屬於入教，特色是要用活水。

——————————————————

Jewish tradition holds that the first instance of ceremonial cleansing occurred just prior to the giving of the covenant at Mt. Sinai. In Exodus 19:10 The Lord said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their garments." They believe that the consecration and the washing of the garments being mentioned together indicates that both the people and the garments were washed.

——————————
如果耶穌要盡人嘅本分，咁佢又唔結婚生仔?又唔守安息日？

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-7-25 14:20 編輯 ]

沙文

reasoning唔掂喎

死同洗有咩喇lung, 都要有得解釋伽。點解係是受洗歸入他的死，而唔係受釘歸入他的死呢？

Jennifer

稍安無燥先...
首先聲名，以下為聖經意見，並非本人立場

豈不知我們這受洗歸入基督耶穌的人、是受洗歸入他的死麼。所以我們藉著洗禮歸入死、
和他一同埋葬．原是叫我們一舉一動有新生的樣式、像基督藉著父的榮耀、從死裡復活
一樣。我們若在他死的形狀上與他聯合、也要在他復活的形狀上與他聯合． (羅馬書6:3-5)

身體只有一個、聖靈只有一個、正如你們蒙召、同有一個指望、一主、一信、一洗、
一神、就是眾人的父、超乎眾人之上、貫乎眾人之中、也住在眾人之內。 (以弗所書4:4-6)

呢d係保羅講嘅...算係解釋左點解信左主要受洗...當然佢都話過人信左主等於與主同釘十架，
咁亦都解釋左點解有d激進教徒鍾意自虐lor (see Da Vinci Code)

至於點解耶穌要受洗？

那時、有施洗的約翰出來、在猶太的曠野傳道、說、  天國近了、你們應當悔改。這人
就是先知以賽亞所說的、他說、『在曠野有人聲喊著說、預備主的道、修直他的路。』
這約翰身穿駱駝毛的衣服、腰束皮帶、喫的是蝗蟲野蜜。那時、耶路撒冷和猶太全地、
並約但河一帶地方的人、都出去到約翰那裡。承認他們的罪、在約但河裡受他的洗。

...當下、耶穌從加利利來到約但河、見了約翰、要受他的洗。約翰想要攔住他、說、我當
受你的洗、你反倒上我這裡來麼。耶穌回答說、你暫且許我．因為我們理當這樣盡諸般的義．
(或作禮) 於是約翰許了他。耶穌受了洗、隨即從水裡上來．天忽然為他開了、他就看見
神的靈、彷彿鴿子降下、落在他身上。從天上有聲音說、這是我的愛子、我所喜悅的。
(馬太福音3:1-6; 13-17)

洗禮呢家野，應該係約翰先諗出黎，而有d以色列人又有興趣follow佢所以俾佢洗。但係呢
個係「赦罪」嘅洗，而唔係「救恩」嘅洗。耶穌點解要洗？唔係因為佢有罪，而係佢要行
「諸般的義」——即係佢既然做左人，就應該盡人嘅本分，費事有把柄俾人話佢冇遵行呢
d 「禮」。

講住咁多先...

[ 本帖最後由 Jennifer 於 2008-7-25 13:50 編輯 ]

抽刀斷水

正在等花姨的答案囉...

dye

咁即係點？

抽刀斷水

昨晚睡得多好。

現在有答案了嗎？

Jennifer

cher...咁你地因乜瞓唔著都可以賴我啦...

沙文

咁又未必
咁樣可能引發佢地辯論咁樣是否等於渴慕神嘅道以致徹夜不眠，故所以造成佢地徹夜不眠

Jennifer

咁你即係話佢地渴慕神嘅道以致徹夜不眠啫...一咁講包佢地實瞓到死豬咁