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看見魚在河中游動,你是知道還是相信這河裏有魚?

有一個問題,我不知道被問過多少次了,尤其是拒絕相信耶穌的人特別喜歡提出這種質疑和挑戰:「如果天主真的這麼厲害,為何叫基督徒只憑一本《聖經》去做宣傳這麼辛苦?為何不直接向全世界顯示祂自己,讓全人類看到祂毋庸置疑的大能而相信祂、敬畏祂呢?」「我講求證據,因為看不到天主所以不相信;如果耶穌向我顯現,我一定相信祂!」其實這些問題對我來說頗有啟發,能促使我從不同角度去思考,我曾經發文表達過自己的有關觀點。

今天,這個問題又忽然找上門來,敲門提醒我去思考學習。當我看到台灣刑法典第十六條「不得因不知法律而免除刑事責任。但按其情節,得減輕其刑。如自信其行為為法律所許可而有正當理由者,得免除其刑」時,聯想到「不知法律」與「看不到天主」之間的關係。從「不得因不知法律而免除刑事責任。但按其情節,得減輕其刑」這個條文,可以看出人類對罪犯的懲處是依照罪過原則而實施的。對於明知故犯的,依例嚴懲不貸;過失犯罪的,可酌量減刑輕罰。我們既然有這個概念,有這個認識,那麼就應該不難理解天主的作為。

亞當、厄娃、加音和出埃及的以色列人都曾面對面見過天主,他們認識天主,然而卻在確實知情的狀態下違反天主的誡命,因此他們都得承受勞碌艱辛然後死亡的後果。肉体死亡之後,他們的靈魂將會怎麼樣?會否獲得天主的原諒?對此我雖然不敢妄下判斷,但從天主從來沒有向墮落天使 —— 魔鬼施予救恩這一點(天使是靈體,能直接見到天主,所以他們是知道真理的),我很擔心亞當、厄娃的靈魂結局。畢竟是我們的祖先,希望天主的慈恩也能福澤他們。

然而,當天主藉耶穌基督的寶血在十字架上向人類施下救恩之後,祂就不再直接向人顯現自己了。我將天主的自我隱藏視為祂對我們的莫大恩寵,耶穌曾對多默宗徒說:「因為你看見了我,才相信嗎?那些沒有看見而相信的,才是有福的!」(若望福音20:29)看見了才相信,那不叫做信,只是認識,是知道而已,正如魔鬼撒殫看見、知道真理一樣。人看見河裏的魚在游動就知道這河裏有魚,而不是相信河裏有魚,看不見而信才叫相信。但如果看見了仍拒絕承認,那叫什麼?那不是信不信、知不知的問題,而是拒絕面對現實,是堅持與真相作對,正如撒殫拒絕服從真理,堅持與天主作對一樣。

天主現在不直接顯現,只藉《聖經》向我們揭示真理,如果我們不信或不全信,祂仍給我們繼續思考和學習的機會,直至人生的終結為時限,屆時我們的靈魂脫離了肉體的遮擋,才會直接面對真相。這種時間的通融不是天主的恩寵是什麼?如果人類在肉身中就可以像天使一樣無遮無掩地直接看到天主的一切奧秘,知道真相了,知道真理了,我們就不是「自信其行為為法律所許可而有正當理由者」了,那我們滿身抵觸真理的罪污該如何處理?從抗拒天主、盜竊、淫邪、説謊等大罪,到妒忌、驕傲、忿怒、懶惰、說人閒話等不良行為,都不可能與聖潔的天主相容,我們豈不是要馬上接受真理的審判嗎?不用等到壽終,馬上就審判!我想請教那些要求天主馬上顯現的人,這是你們所希望得到的結果嗎?天主藉聖子耶穌基督的犧牲為罪人作贖價,並給予人一生的時間去學習、認識真理,使凡相信耶穌的人都得罪之赦,你們不願意接受這份救恩嗎?你們為何要堅持帶着罪污馬上接受天主的審判?或許撒殫的粉絲會堅持挑戰說:「天主根本就不存在,如果真的存在就叫祂馬上顯大能神蹟給我看,看到後我願意即時在審判台前與祂對質,好讓我來個痛快!」粉絲啊粉絲,你是誰?你想痛快就痛快?你把萬有的天主當成供你呼來喚去的奴僕嗎?天主的計劃豈能因你個人的焦躁而有所更改?你慢慢耐心等著吧,讓你等候是天主對你的一番美意。

在世界上,「不得因不知法律而免除刑事責任」,而在聖潔的天國,不潔的、不接受耶穌基督救贖的罪人都不能進入天堂的大門。然而,天主給人充足的時間去學習、認識真理,因為「其實是他對你們含忍,不願任何人喪亡,只願眾人回心轉意。」(伯多祿後書3:9)天主的忍耐與等待不就是對我們的恩寵嗎?所以,耶穌吩咐門徒廣傳福音,讓所有人認識真理:「你們往普天下去,向一切受造物宣傳福音,信而受洗的必要得救;但不信的必被判罪。」(馬爾谷福音16:15-16)
主題明說是看見,這當然就是知道了。
神揀選世上愚拙、軟弱的.
同網主講聲sorry,而家先發現我修改下篇貼文然後再send就變成左兩篇,仲以為beebeechan刪除咗佢嘅發言添。
主題明說是看見,這當然就是知道了。
昊暠昺 2022/11/26 13:40 提交


你在香討渾噩,理解能力不見有改進。
樓主是在說「知道」與「相信」的不同,不是說甚麼是「知道」。
不時都聽到有小女人講: 早知係咁, 就唔x, y z....哩
即係話, 好多時「知道」後便為時已晚。
我們日常生活中, 實在有很多事和時..要在「不全知道」下作出決定的
你在香討渾噩,理解能力不見有改進。
樓主是在說「知道」與「相信」的不同,不是說甚麼是「知道」。 ...
beebeechan 發表於 2022/11/26 17:34


佢多啲過嚟發言都好㗎,呢度啲人坦白誠實肯充份表現自己嘅觀點,唔似香討嗰邊啲人陰啲陰啲,兩邊氣氛好唔同。
leefeng行開咗,佢嚟鄧腳補位啱啱好,等個論壇冇咁冷清,多個人講嘢兼推貼。
那些沒有看見而相信的,才是有福的
逃出魔幻紀 發表於 2022/11/26 11:59

    「那些沒有看見而相信的,才是有福的」這叫盲從。邪教就喜歡盲從,信徒個個冇思想,叫佢「奉獻」,就「奉獻」。叫佢為教而死,就為教去殺異己,誰人最得益?
直至人生的終結為時限,屆時我們的靈魂脫離了肉體的遮擋,才會直接面對真相
逃出魔幻紀 發表於 2022/11/26 11:59

    無能就係無能。邪教一要驗證就立變縮烏龜。科學講證據,好笑的是邪教卻口口聲聲話自己符合科學。
從抗拒天主、盜竊、淫邪、説謊等大罪,到妒忌、驕傲、忿怒、懶惰、說人閒話等不良行為,都不可能與聖潔的天主相容
逃出魔幻紀 發表於 2022/11/26 11:59

   屁眼教主犯的大罪少嗎?牠卻是「上帝兒子」!
耶穌吩咐門徒廣傳福音,讓所有人認識真理
逃出魔幻紀 發表於 2022/11/26 11:59

   真戇鳩!一下子就叫人信的事不做,卻耗費班靚一生時間去撒謊。
「那些沒有看見而相信的,才是有福的」這叫盲從。邪教就喜歡盲從,信徒個個冇思想,叫佢「奉獻」,就 ...
旁觀者 發表於 2022/11/28 09:21

同意爷爷。

那些没有看見而相信的,才是“““阿福”””的
向人類施下救恩之後,祂就不再直接向人顯現自己了。我將天主的自我隱藏視為祂對我們的莫大恩寵
逃出魔幻紀 發表於 2022/11/26 11:59

    「天主」話侮辱牠的必立刻報應、決不延遲。爺爺都唔知罵過牠不知多少次,牠總是個縮頭烏龜,想嚇人?
    爺爺就準備定支擂漿棍,牠敢蒲頭,便有牠好看。
「天主」話侮辱牠的必立刻報應、決不延遲。爺爺都唔知罵過牠不知多少次,牠總是個縮頭烏龜,想嚇人?
...
旁觀者 發表於 2022/11/29 00:53



    唔好唔信邪

約翰連儂1966年, 紅得很時, 曾嘲笑神:
“Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was okay, but his subjects were too simple, today we are more famous than Him” (1966).

1970年, Beatles 就解散。


鐵達尼號設計者Thomas Andrews曾誇口地說鐵達尼十分安全:
”Even God himself couldn’t sink the ship”.

結果 。。。。。。。



算哩, 有咁岩得咁橋唶
本帖最後由 beebeechan 於 2022/11/29 02:20 編輯

成日自誇條檑漿棍, 會唔會就用你條棍開個玩笑。。?

十多年來,爺爺講過屌「天主」屎窟唔知多少,一樣睡得甜、吃得香,何曾有事?批判邪教,爺爺還住大屋呢。呢啲就係上蒼對反邪教者的獎賞,爺爺何嘗怕過邪教嘅恐嚇。
    BB仔,你冇料到就只曉講東講西。
唔好唔信邪

約翰連儂1966年, 紅得很時, 曾嘲笑神:
“Christianity will end, it will disappear. I ...
beebeechan 發表於 2022/11/29 02:08


你放這兩條新聞只能向大家更加證明基督教的神+教徒都是邪惡和心胸窄:小人和心腸壞才會下下都要有仇必報,沒有容人之量的信仰叫乜野?叫邪教!
塞爾蘇斯:基督徒有【造反傾向】,他們蔑視傳統,喜歡地下活動,或明或暗地反對習俗和法律。他們不公開生活,對國家完全沒有興趣,所以是文明的敵人,野蠻的開路人。
羅12:9 愛人不可虛假;惡要厭惡,善要親近。
羅12:14 逼迫你們的,要給他們祝福;只要祝福,不可咒詛。
彼前4:17 因為時候到了,審判要從神的家起首。若是先從我們起首,那不信從神福音的人將有何等的結局呢?
可11:21 彼得想起耶穌的話來,就對他說:拉比,請看!你所咒詛的無花果樹,已經枯乾了。


Rom12:9 Let love be without deceit. Be haters of what is evil; keep your minds fixed on what is good.
Rom12:14 Give blessing and not curses to those who are cruel to you.
1Pe4:17 For the time has come for the judging, starting with the church of God; but if it makes a start with us, what will be the end of those who are not under the rule of God?
Mak11:21 And Peter, having a memory of it, said to him, Master, see, the tree which was cursed by you is dead.







羅12:9 愛人不可虛假;惡要厭惡,善要親近。
羅12:14 逼迫你們的,要給他們祝福;只要祝福,不可咒詛。
彼前4:17 因為時候到了,審判要從神的家起首。若是先從我們起首,那不信從神福音的人將有何等的結局呢?
可11:21 彼得想起耶穌的話來,就對他說:拉比,請看!你所咒詛的無花果樹,已經枯乾了。
加1:8 但無論是我們,是天上來的使者,若傳福音給你們,與我們所傳給你們的不同,他就應當被咒詛。
加1:9 我們已經說了,現在又說,若有人傳福音給你們,與你們所領受的不同,他就應當被咒詛。
林前16:22 若有人不愛主,這人可詛可咒。主必要來!
Rom12:9 Let love be without deceit. Be haters of what is evil; keep your minds fixed on what is good.
Rom12:14 Give blessing and not curses to those who are cruel to you.
1Pe4:17 For the time has come for the judging, starting with the church of God; but if it makes a start with us, what will be the end of those who are not under the rule of God?
Mak11:21 And Peter, having a memory of it, said to him, Master, see, the tree which was cursed by you is dead.
Gal1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, were to be a preacher to you of good news other than that which we have given you, let there be a curse on him.
Gal1:9 As we have said before, so say I now again, If any man is a preacher to you of any good news other than that which has been given to you, let there be a curse on him.
1Co16:22 If any man has not love for the Lord, let him be cursed. Maran atha (our Lord comes).






(太5:21) 你們聽見有吩咐古人的話,說:不可殺人;又說:凡殺人的難免受審判。
(太19:18) 他說:什麼誡命?耶穌說:就是不可殺人;不可姦淫;不可偷盜;不可作假見證;
(可10:19) 誡命你是曉得的:不可殺人;不可姦淫;不可偷盜;不可作假見證;不可虧負人;當孝敬父母。
(路18:20) 誡命你是曉得的:不可姦淫;不可殺人;不可偷盜;不可作假見證;當孝敬父母。
(羅13:9) 像那不可姦淫,不可殺人,不可偷盜,不可貪婪,或有別的誡命,都包在愛人如己這一句話之內了。
(提前1:9) 因為律法不是為義人設立的,乃是為不法和不服的,不虔誠和犯罪的,不聖潔和戀世俗的,弑父母和殺人的,
(雅2:11) 原來那說不可姦淫的,也說不可殺人;你就是不姦淫,卻殺人,仍是成了犯律法的。
(約一3:15) 凡恨他弟兄的,就是殺人的;你們曉得凡殺人的,沒有永生存在他裡面。
(彼前4:15) 你們中間卻不可有人因為殺人、偷竊、作惡、好管閒事而受苦。
(路19:26) 主人說:我告訴你們,凡有的,還要加給他;沒有的,連他所有的也要奪過來。
(路19:27) 至於我那些仇敵,不要我作他們王的,把他們拉來,在我面前殺了吧!

Mat5:21 You have knowledge that it was said in old times, You may not put to death; and, Whoever puts to death will be in danger of being judged:
Mat19:18 He says to him, Which? And Jesus said, Do not put anyone to death, Do not be untrue in married life, Do not take what is not yours, Do not give false witness,
Mak10:19 You have knowledge of what is said in the law, Do not put any one to death, Do not be untrue in married life, Do not take what is not yours, Do not give false witness, Do not get money by deceit, Give honour to your father and mother.
Luk18:20 You have knowledge of what the law says: Do not be untrue to your wife, Do not put anyone to death, Do not take what is not yours, Do not give false witness, Give honour to your father and mother.
Rom13:9 And this, Do not be untrue in married life, Do not put to death, Do not take what is another's, Do not have desire for what is another's, and if there is any other order, it is covered by this word, Have love for your neighbour as for yourself.
1Ti1:9 With the knowledge that the law is made, not for the upright man, but for those who have no respect for law and order, for evil men and sinners, for the unholy and those who have no religion, for those who put their fathers or mothers to death, for takers of life,
Jas2:11 For he who said, Do not be untrue in married life, is the same who said, Put no man to death. Now if you are not untrue in married life, but you put a man to death, the law is broken.
1Jn3:15 Anyone who has hate for his brother is a taker of life, and you may be certain that no taker of life has eternal life in him.
1Pe4:15 Let no one among you undergo punishment as a taker of life, or as a thief, or as an evil-doer, or as one who is over-interested in other men's business;
Luk19:26 And I say to you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Luk19:27 And as for those who were against me, who would not have me for their ruler, let them come here, and be put to death before me.






羅12:9 愛人不可虛假;惡要厭惡,善要親近。
羅12:14 逼迫你們的,要給他們祝福;只要祝福,不可咒詛。
羅12:15 與喜樂的人要同樂;與哀哭的人要同哭。
羅12:16 要彼此同心;不要志氣高大,倒要俯就卑微的人(人:或作事);不要自以為聰明。
羅12:17 不要以惡報惡;眾人以為美的事要留心去做。
羅12:18 若是能行,總要盡力與眾人和睦。
羅12:19 親愛的弟兄,不要自己伸冤,寧可讓步,聽憑主怒(或作:讓人發怒);因為經上記著:主說:伸冤在我;我必報應。
羅12:20 所以,你的仇敵若餓了,就給他吃,若渴了,就給他喝;因為你這樣行就是把炭火堆在他的頭上。
羅12:21 你不可為惡所勝,反要以善勝惡。
林前12:3 所以我告訴你們,被神的靈感動的,沒有說耶穌是可咒詛的;若不是被聖靈感動的,也沒有能說耶穌是主的。
羅13:9 像那不可姦淫,不可殺人,不可偷盜,不可貪婪,或有別的誡命,都包在愛人如己這一句話之內了。
雅2:11 原來那說不可姦淫的,也說不可殺人;你就是不姦淫,卻殺人,仍是成了犯律法的。
加1:8 但無論是我們,是天上來的使者,若傳福音給你們,與我們所傳給你們的不同,他就應當被咒詛。
加1:9 我們已經說了,現在又說,若有人傳福音給你們,與你們所領受的不同,他就應當被咒詛。
加1:10 我現在是要得人的心呢?還是要得神的心呢?我豈是討人的喜歡嗎?若仍舊討人的喜歡,我就不是基督的僕人了。
加1:11 弟兄們,我告訴你們,我素來所傳的福音不是出於人的意思。
加1:12 因為我不是從人領受的,也不是人教導我的,乃是從耶穌基督啟示來的。
林前15:25 因為基督必要作王,等神把一切仇敵都放在他的腳下。
林前15:26 儘末了所毀滅的仇敵,就是死。
林前16:22 若有人不愛主,這人可詛可咒。主必要來!
可11:21 彼得想起耶穌的話來,就對他說:拉比,請看!你所咒詛的無花果樹,已經枯乾了。
路19:26 主人說:我告訴你們,凡有的,還要加給他;沒有的,連他所有的也要奪過來。
路19:27 至於我那些仇敵,不要我作他們王的,把他們拉來,在我面前殺了吧!

Rom12:9 Let love be without deceit. Be haters of what is evil; keep your minds fixed on what is good.
Rom12:14 Give blessing and not curses to those who are cruel to you.
Rom12:15 Take part in the joy of those who are glad, and in the grief of those who are sorrowing.
Rom12:16 Be in harmony with one another. Do not have a high opinion of yourselves, but be in agreement with common people. Do not give yourselves an air of wisdom.
Rom12:17 Do not give evil for evil to any man. Let all your business be well ordered in the eyes of all men.
Rom12:18 As far as it is possible for you be at peace with all men.
Rom12:19 Do not give punishment for wrongs done to you, dear brothers, but give way to the wrath of God; for it is said in the holy Writings, Punishment is mine, I will give reward, says the Lord.
Rom12:20 But if one who has hate for you is in need of food or of drink, give it to him, for in so doing you will put coals of fire on his head.
Rom12:21 Do not let evil overcome you, but overcome evil by good.
1Co12:3 So it is my desire for you to be clear about this; that no one is able to say by the Spirit of God that Jesus is cursed; and no one is able to say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
Rom13:9 And this, Do not be untrue in married life, Do not put to death, Do not take what is another's, Do not have desire for what is another's, and if there is any other order, it is covered by this word, Have love for your neighbour as for yourself.
Jas2:11 For he who said, Do not be untrue in married life, is the same who said, Put no man to death. Now if you are not untrue in married life, but you put a man to death, the law is broken.
Gal1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, were to be a preacher to you of good news other than that which we have given you, let there be a curse on him.
Gal1:9 As we have said before, so say I now again, If any man is a preacher to you of any good news other than that which has been given to you, let there be a curse on him.
Gal1:10 Am I now using arguments to men, or God? or is it my desire to give men pleasure? if I was still pleasing men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Gal1:11 Because I say to you, my brothers, that the good news of which I was the preacher is not man's.
Gal1:12 For I did not get it from man, and I was not given teaching in it, but it came to me through revelation of Jesus Christ.
1Co15:25 For his rule will go on till he has put all those who are against him under his feet.
1Co15:26 The last power to come to an end is death.
1Co16:22 If any man has not love for the Lord, let him be cursed. Maran atha (our Lord comes).
Mak11:21 And Peter, having a memory of it, said to him, Master, see, the tree which was cursed by you is dead.
Luk19:26 And I say to you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Luk19:27 And as for those who were against me, who would not have me for their ruler, let them come here, and be put to death before me.




本帖最後由 beebeechan 於 2022/12/8 22:22 編輯
你放這兩條新聞只能向大家更加證明基督教的神+教徒都是邪惡和心胸窄:小人和心腸壞才會下下都要有仇必報 ...
leefeng 發表於 2022/12/8 12:14


你呢帖咁樣講,
係咪認咗神會懲罸嘲笑佢既人咁, 唔係講笑咁呢
咁亞旁觀者真係要出入平安囉



見佢依家仲好平安, 証明神既心胸唔窄, 容人之度幾大
無能就是無能!
    「當面報應」、「決不延遲」豈非屁話?
你呢帖咁樣講,
係咪認咗神會懲罸嘲笑佢既人咁, 唔係講笑咁呢
咁亞旁觀者真係要出入平安囉



見佢依家仲 ...
beebeechan 發表於 2022/12/8 22:16

見佢依家仲好平安, 証明神既心胸唔窄, 容人之度幾大


咁…………
莫非你個天主係有雙重性格嘅怪物?神又係佢,魔鬼又係佢?


唔好唔信邪


約翰連儂1966年, 紅得很時, 曾嘲笑神:
“Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was okay, but his subjects were too simple, today we are more famous than Him” (1966).


1970年, Beatles 就解散。




鐵達尼號設計者Thomas Andrews曾誇口地說鐵達尼十分安全:
”Even God himself couldn’t sink the ship”.


結果 。。。。。。。
塞爾蘇斯:基督徒有【造反傾向】,他們蔑視傳統,喜歡地下活動,或明或暗地反對習俗和法律。他們不公開生活,對國家完全沒有興趣,所以是文明的敵人,野蠻的開路人。
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