Nomad

>unprepared for the event (intelligence failure).

此其一
其二是一個很簡單的問題,就是要是軍隊很難實行鎮壓而不傷害場內無辜的平民
(其實中國對暴動準備始終是不足的,而反過來,要是開坦克鎮壓的話,不止耐不住會被全世界發現,而且子彈不會長眼,對於拉薩市平民的後果會很嚴重)
所以比較方便的方法是疏散還沒有波及而在暴動範圍內的平民,然後徹底封鎖現場。

>Having a riot is one sign of incompetence.

這種事情每年在歐洲足總賽後都會上演一次
當然,這種有組織地攻擊特定平民目標的riot能發生倒是種失敗

> Not able to control is second.  

發生了之後,再控制一向都是極為困難
尤其暴動者一開始就混在受害者中
還有,這些可是連防暴警察都會打扁的傢伙

>Unable to protect independent observer is third.

問題就是
要是在以色列發生的話,所有人都會不明不白的指向巴勒斯坦人
而在中國發生的話,無論是不是軍警開鎗,他們都會說是軍警殺的
(而記者為了新聞,往往就是往最容易死掉的地方跑的)


最有趣的是,德國一開始就影下尼泊爾警察虐待藏民的片子聲稱是中國公安所為
(連制服和膚色都不同)
而CNN最早亦借同一片報導。
這在於任何國家而言,都不算是很禮貌的開放請求。

Nomad

>How much of a chaos it will cause with new currency, new diplomatic relationship, and a ultra-sour feeling between the two neighbours. (Chinese is very unlikely to be tolerant about the seperation,) Whatever the gain they believe people can get, this price tag is expensive.

其實要是西藏新彊兩個地方跑掉的話
錢中原人是賺了
怕的只是一中國會搞成前蘇聯一樣
二是俄國和印度的軍隊(失去了喜瑪拉雅山脈的保障,任何對於中國資源虎視眈眈的政權都可以從西藏進入青海攻擊。)
到底,首先蝕底的仍然是西藏人自己。
(所以他們說藏民一般根本就不想獨立,其實倒是很有此可能)

>1) What is wrong with a cultural change?  The current Tibet's Budhism is an imported culture too!  If part of the culture is rottening, it should be advantagous to discard the part.  If the part of culture is so great, someone will see it, keep it, and even spread it.  Did not Budhism teaches that life is a flux?

世界任何國家都會經歷這些步驟的。
多點時間吧。
正如加州人和波士頓人會堆到唐人街飲茶一樣
要是藏文化真的有那麼好康
五十年之後我們或者會通通穿藏服也說不定。
(旗袍不就在民國都仍然流行了?)

>- Canada have freedom of press (try visit wiki in China).  There is a communist party in Canada and no one is going to prosecute them.

其實美國是試過的。
而共和黨那種教會的政客現在仍在試著回到那個時代。

>- Canada have freedom of speech (There are not many sacred cow in Canada. watch TVB in Mainland should prove the point.)

美國南部到現在都仍然是沒有的。
你當街說你是無神論者的話
你同樣會被射成蜂窩而沒有人會替你報警

>- For Canada, the point of view is comparatively neutral

同上,這是花了百年時間的成果。

>- Canada have a balance of power.  A horrible prime minister is not going to get very far.

抱歉,在美國,教會有足夠的時間當政令伊拉克合計死亡兩百萬人。
... 毫無意義地
(要是死那麼多是有錢賺回來的話,我還不會加教會兩個字上去)

>- We have a reasonable potiential to participate in the government for everyone.  Nearly no one is left out.  

同樣錯
美國是不可能出一位華人,或,黑人,或女人總統的(今次大選也不會)
加拿大同樣不會 - 即令另外的選擇可能是希特勒或者是世界大戰。

>the next day I switch on the TV.. they are having a "witness" show on how real the Noah's Ark myth is. (IE preaching on TV in Guangzhou)

所以我才說中國何止百年國難。

>You don't need to believe me, but the law in China is great.  But not many respect it.

同樣,當宗教有需要的時候
無論是美國還是加拿大,都不見得他們很尊重自己的憲法。

Nomad

>according 'the camera shots ,
>@ this time ,
>even
>'the monks +
>'the ladies did stand out + led 'the gangsters to stand against again

始終都是那問題,那佔拉薩當中的多少人?
要是真的那麼多人那麼嚴重的要獨立的話,恐怕早就像巴勒斯坦一樣了。

>couldest thou bet on that ??

賭多少?

另,特別賭注五千元美金
「共和黨再上場的話五年內會發生核戰。」
實現的話我贏。

Nomad

>錢中原人是賺了
>sorry , i un-understood 'the red sentence ,

其實現下西藏(尤其拉薩市)是靠中原和岸口都市的資金和技術發展的
但是始終物流極不方便,所以要靠青鐵和解放軍運物資
要是藏獨的話,解放軍大可省回運物資的消耗
口岸都市又可以徹資省錢,不用千里昭昭去老遠搞基建

Nomad

>sorry again ,
>doest thou not feel thy proposition too controversial or arbitrary or impossible ?????????

哪個?

Nomad

See... dye, you should stop taunting me to use English to discuss with you XDDDD


First of all, you do realize the fact that we never had 1.3 billion people in the past right?XD

And about natural resources, it's hard, if possible, to compare China with other countries - the EU and US had been prospering beyond its limit of natural resources and technology for the last three centuries predorminately because missionaries run into African and MiddleEast countries to give them bible and rob their land. Especially for EU it is still the case to this very day - they

The case is the same for China, we've been losing tremendous natural resources since late Qing dynasty because "colonizers" (ironically, as most Christians lies to cover it up, they're predorminately missioners) had been laying waste to China's natural resources basically as bad as they were doing to the African countries. While the damage is not permenant (well, maybe semi-permenant), it is not anyone's ability to recover from all the environmental damages from a civil war,  a world war, and 200 years of "colonial" abuse (I would keep quotationing that term to signify that its modern purely political formulation is by itself false)

原帖由 dye 於 2008-3-31 18:32 發表
In the world arena, China has Japanese left over factory and tech.  There is a bit of weapon left over by the Japanese too.  We have Russia (and its bloc) as friends and technical support.  India is initially friendly and serve as a bridge to the other side of the world.  The world is busy after WWII in reconstruction, no one has much of a will to fight anyone.  Japanese has give China a huge sum of charity after WWII (You can also say it is like compensation).  The world economy is recovering from hell before WWII.  China has a VETO in UN.

The Japanese left overs were, let's face it, pretty, left overs. The Zero fighters by then was no match with the US Jets. Russia is basically as brain drain as bull crap in terms of civilian infrastuctures, though yea, thanks to them we now have nukes, thus finally stops the missioners from coming behind the armies, well, maybe now they come behind the tourists.
The Japanese huge sum of charity is doubtful, considering the damage done in WWII.
And the China VETO in UN comes pretty late.

Though, that being said
YES, that does not take away the mistake on the communist government. But then again, mindsets are built by decades of cultivation. And we had missionaries into China since 300 years ago till today, guess what did they seed? Yea, nothing but hate. Hate to one's self. Thus the cultural revolution.

You have to realize most countries do not have that many people.  Having less population create other problems as dire as over-population.  Human power is an assets in and of itself.  With human power, things can get done.  People can make their fortune.  With no human power, nothing gets done and everyone has to live with whatever they start with.

Yea, but most country you'll want to compare with China, don't have as much a problem.

Only when a person is mongering war do they speak of nationism.  The time when people speak of protecting "my country" against "your country" is also time when our home (a very small place) is never in conflict with each other.  

I mean, please, it's not like we've a lot of choices when Texas was speaking about "kill the atheists else for God" , German is talking "great for God and die Muslims", Japan is talking "look at all those inferior Chinese people", and even India is talking things like having a piece of their wrath.

Take the "Fishing Island" China fight with Japan for example, Chinese keep speaking of protecting their "home  country" but how much will it hurt them if they let go of the island when it is not populated at all?  How much would YOUR home gain from trading peacefully with Japan if we sit and coolly discuss the issue?  Most of time, I see them protecting a ideology (nationalism), just like the US citizen.  

See the whole problem in the Fishing Island instant is NOT as mcuh a problem of ideology but, the following,
1. literally, the fishing benefits from there. According to international law somewhere like 150km from the coastal line belongs to the country as their water territories, so the country basically has the sole fishing right in there, it also gains you strategic territory to deploy ships.
2. It's a slippery slope argument, if their country can take an island today, they'll take another tomorrow, then Taiwan, then maybe Canton. It's a prominent thinking after WWII.
3. NO, we will not gain trade advantage even if we let go everything - the Japanese government's long list of "political struggling with China" wasn't even a representation of Japanese interest, but rather a political command from the power hungrying Republicans in the US, believe it or not. After all, don't you realize how the Japanese government changes in sync of the US government?

Sorry, if I need to "remember" who I am, I am only partially Han, and hence partially Chinese.  My blood has a country long lost in history, conquered by Chinese as "barbarian".

Let's face it, that Chinese is a race is A MYTH. The Country of China was at least consist of as many as 47 races like a few thousand years ago, it's only elaborate exchange within the continent that dilutes any independent gene pool, so as what is called Canton people. Plus, most major army generals in the late dynasties comes from one of "ours" (canton), so you're saying that they're all half-Chineses?

Have you realize that the current prosperity occur after communist somewhat let go of their control over the economy (under Tang's command)?  Do you realize that people have and will feed themselves if you leave them alone?  Do you think China has always been in a famine before the communist?  Have you heard that a China feast for a feudal lord during Ch'ing is better than a pricess wedding feast for a European country?

Wait wait now step back a bit.
The predorminant "not letting go" problem MOST western countries was talking about were enterprise ownership, currency control AND "freedom" of religion spreading (which is essentially propaganda). If you give them all these "freedom" they asked about, oh yea guess what? China will have over 80% of its property owned by priests, coperations and other governments and you think they will "take care of the people and let them feed themselves"? No, we'll be as poor as the African countries which has 90% of the population believing in Christianity and just as high percentage of people having AIDS.

Then the people will still be illiterate and even less scientific literate than HK (which has minimal scientific strength in Asia, when compared to Shanghai, Japan and Beijing). Remember, HK is scientific literate because the people who runs the education fears the communist government, without them, basically every student in HK will believe that earth is flat and evolution is a myth. Like, EVERY one.

Tang's economical reformation is not really "free", rather, it's a gradual opening of the country that relies heavily in state ownership, state controlled education and military support (YEA, the PLA has been more skillful in manufacturing, construction, dancing, passing sand bags person to person to block breaching damps and sucidal fire rescue by infantry running into the fire than fighting as an army, and dude, no kidding, among the 5 UN VETO countires, PLA is like suffering the least casualities from war (when had we fought one?) and the most casualties from flood rescue.)

If you wish a comparison in the mordern period, a typical one is India.  There are the truely have-not.  But, it also manage to feed itselves no matter which parties takes over, no?  Is there major famine over there like in China? (Even after China defeated them in battle?  Pakistan seperates and threaten them with nuke under support of China?)

No, because on the other hand, India got military support from US.

But they do block people from seeing outside.   
a) Getting a VISA is not easy in China.  I have been with the diplomatic group sent out by Chinese government before.  These fellow are so happy to get a passport.

b) The media is censor (looking at TVB from China prove the point)

When they do let you see the world, they block the part they do not wish people to see.  (Watching TVB again, will prove the point)

Just like religion, brainwashing started out in childhood.  My kind of wash is in HK.

Dude let's face it. Even the US governemtn does censors quite a lot. I mean, no kidding. We too can't read some of the news from China.
Censorships has been trendy since the cold war where the US government allied with the church so that they will preach people that it does not matter even if they nuked the world. So unless you're living in a state where people will kill and die for press freedom (like Masschusetts, which is like one of the last strongholds of intellectuals admit the entire country of fundamentalist), both the state government, the church controlled white house and the local churches are doing just as much an effort in censorship as the communist government.
YES, they're not as successful in doing so because there's still that little piece of paper called constitution that flows around which will pretty surely be teared into pieces if the next president is still a Republican.



So yea, I'm pretty satisfied that the Communist Party did a pretty good job. I mean, think about it, if the party is switched to US Republicans and communism replaced by the church, we're most probably illiterate, still in proverty, and what is called China might have became a desert due to soil errosion, etc (think about how these people can screw their own country while leveling others, and that China tends not to screw someone else).

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 16:15 發表
One of the question is WHY you are unable to read news from China?

a) no service provider? (no demand?) Well, I have watch CCTV in US.
b) government banned it?

If it is b, you know that you can sue  ...

It's a ip ban from mainland websites.
By the way, AOL had been known doing it for the Republicans for some time already.
And, seriously, do you have the money to sue them?

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
This trade balance have not change from the beginning until
a) They introduce opium
b) The government lose a war and need to pay for it

And the whole problem of as of now (2007), China does not have a stable economy for investors to play around. Remember the financial crisis.
(And seriously, if China don't control its own currency and

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
Japanese also left over
a) factory
b) skills

The "enemy" we are facing is no in a good shape.  How many plane do we really need? (Many of those powerful' country is bomb to ashes and is in a recovery phase.)

Remember, they had McArthur to aid them back then, we don't.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
Talk about strategy today is strange.  Converntional fighting simply does not work between powerful countries.  If China fight a war with Japan, we will be talking about a nuclear winter very soon.  (Unlike Taiwan, Japanese has assets across the globe to make an influence, their assets are also owned across the globe to magnify the influence.)  We will need CAVES, not island.

Nope, most wars we are talking about today (if feasible) are regional wars for natural resources. And in fact, nuclear war will be very unlikely even if Japan invaded China again. (Though the fundies in US? Well ... now I'm worrying if McCain gets up there)

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
In DNA, when a Yellow and a White have a child, neither White or Yellow gene will disappear.  The way to make the gene pool shift (to Yellow) is to have a natural selection against Whites.  Otherwise you can keep breeding for thousands of years and there will be the same portion of the population that is White.

With no natural selection, a population with 90 Yellow and 10 White will remain 90%Yellow and 10% White.  The Yellow will not be able to dilute the White as the population grow or shrink.  Work out the math and you should see what I mean.

From how most people look simliar today in China, you can already know what has happen in the past.

That's exactly what I MEAN. There's no definite definition for "Hans" because they've been mixing with others so much due to ease of transportation in China.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
If you let people act freely, the price of rice will skyrocket (in fact it has in black market), farmer will farm more food item, merchant can purchase some from our neighbour (or smuggle as is used in those time in black market)

How do you believe the population get to so large in the first place?

I have much more confidence in Chinese picking wisely and against the priest when they are allow to act freely.

Dude, there's a limit of natural resources and maximum possible production on the economical presumptions.
And considering how much China invested on foreign going students and how many of them became missioners and in term screwed science in their own country, NO, I'm pretty in distrust in the central government on this issue - they're over confident with the effects.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
Looking at history, when did Guangdong begin to prosper?  When we begin to trade with foreigner. (At Gunagzhou, as written in the museum in Gunagzhou)

If Gaungzhou "opened" to let priests give them bibles in exchange of land (in fact it happened in Qing Dynasty), then, well, see? NO.
We "opened" door by Qing dynasty to foreigners to "invest" completely freely. Now remember, boxers don't rebell because they're so bored.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
When people speak of leting go, it mean capitalistic economy.   Where MOST but not ALL of the economy is controlled by private sector.

Why is there a famine in China under communist?  Because the government command everyone to grow cotton instead of food item.  Because the governemnt command everyone to 'try' refining their tools into steel in their backyard.

In my village in particular, because the government commanded everyone to use their techique and damage the soil (When everyone in the village know the techique will not work).  

Dude, you're mixing state ownership with superstitious government officials and throwing science into the gabbish bin.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表

Looking at staistics, country who open trade and get foreign development investment do get improvement in health and education.  It is simply a fact.  The African countries that do not get an improvement are exactly those that do not open up.

As Adam Smith would say, people get their meat from the butcher not because the butcher is merciful.  It is because mutually beneficial to do so. Foreign investor gain a benefit from educating their workers on health, skills (including science), etc.

If US owned a huge part of China (which is possible by going in backdoor, through various different country, and mayby they already has), they will pay for Chinese education not because they love us, but because it benefit them too.

A hell lot of the African countries has literally everything owned by Chinese, European and US and THEY ARE THE SOURCES to keep their government closed to their own people by funding corrupting government. And you called that "not opened up to foreigners". I mean, dude, WAKE UP. They've been "opening" since colonial times and all they achieved were having their very people shipped to Europe as slaves with missioners selling them. Look at Indonesia which serves as the major factory yet workers are paid literally nothing, forever. The list goes on.

And it's the same deal. If US enterprises which are predorminantly right (fundie) leaning has owned much of China there'll be a price tag on every Chinese's life and freedom. And no, rather than educating the Chinese they'll let their own unemployed useless people come and rule over.

Again, remember how most people actually SUFFERED in Qing dynasty and the early National government.

Rather, enforcing Chinese ownage of firms and requires foreign coorporations to actually deal with the local people on fair, local terms which in turn requires them to give out more technology and mutual cooperation in exchange.

In the end it is a bitter choice when the local people cannot compete with foreign corporations which in turn due to destruction of the country by wars engineered solely to colonize, rob resources and spread religion.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表

Now back to HK.  The place is highly commerce-literate.  Karl Marx would have said the mode of production dictate the culture of its people.  HK mode of production IS commerce.

I really feel sorry to say about this. But I don't really support Karl Marx's theory because if HK's culture does reflect its mode of production, then HK must be living on selling their country and political benefits to the US Republicans. Considering how the so-called top schools educated the kids, I mean, seriously.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
If HK try on natural science research, its success is limited. A world class research project requires more money than a single city's budget.   Even Bristish government itself is unable to fund a project on its own and relies on EU to cover the bills.  

WRONG. If our colonial left behind government has the least amount of responsibility to abandon Noah's Ark (which is 800 million government money) and give that to Science, it can fund at most 100 basic plasma physics research projects.

And that's just ONE government transaction (that violates separation of church and state and has NOTHING to do with commerce) alone.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-13 15:16 發表
For China, it would ask the question of why HK among many other city?  For its above average living cost? (When a research cost 5k, in HK, it cost 13k?)  For its lack of water resources? (How do you build a fresh water facility if the city is already buying water from GuangDong?)  Lack of space?  (If you can sell the piece of land for billion, you are going to make a experimental farm on it?)   Think about launching a rocket in HK..umm.

But HK do have research, little ones like surgical technique, medical treatment (the hospital is there anyway)  Cell phone technology (Beta tester is everywhere here!), etc..

Because HK has the so called best international connections with other countries and thus serves a bridge between the Chinese academia and foreign academia. I'm sorry, but you might have left the academia so long not to notice that.

And seriously, what are you selling if you don't have anything to produce?

And NO, no one lauches any rockets nor planes in Boston yet aerodynamics and rocket science is quite a subject there
No one fights war there too. Yet Robotic warfare research is huge in Boston University.
They don't do nuclear tests and laser bombardment experiments there as well, yet it's a big thing in MIT
And land in Boston, SF California and Chicago are VERY expensive.

Want more of this?

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-15 14:38 發表
AOL is the only ISP in US?  AOL is government controlled?

If it is a public company, it is market force you are against, not government.

If there is enough demand for mainland websites, AOL will hav ...

Well it becomes a problem when you have only so many providers.

And problem with market force is you can ALWAYS buy off someone's freedom only because you've more money.

And again, who has more money in the states? Banks, corporations, churches.

Nomad

>A war with UN/South Korea in Korea (tie) Chinese lost anywhere from 152k to 422k life.  US lost from 32k to 60k life.

>A war with (communist) Vietnam (partial success)

>A war with India (Won), why do India lose a war if they really get a military support from US?  

Remember, UK and US had fought like an order of magnitude more wars than the list.

Nomad

>Is it when the British are around?  Or when he Bristish left and the Chinese is operating their system?  Are we going to blame every fault that happen 50 years from 1997 to UK?

Under the British government Chinese were quite allowed to be educated only within 2 decades before the return of the state, only 5 years before the handover when HK suddenly gets what is called elections and 7 universities and all the others.

Says something? Yes, before the significant "threat" of Chinese taking over and uncover to the world that the Hans in HK are enslaved to be skin broke, the UK would never had give you quite a lot of human rights.In fact, they will still impose every high official as white, and Chinese will still only be the people who cleaning up the streets and their churches.

Who works in the nike factories which is essentially in another sense "colony of the corporation" anyway?

I mean, please. Stop ignoring it. You won't get a candy only for being nice to someone who believes that the only way is to dorminate (Christians)


>The city is a commerce city, typical fellow has a culture of commerce.  If it promise to earn a buck .... (Con artist industry is still an industry.  Expect income from tourist?  It is just like opening a casino.)  

You're talking about a city of commerce that would think they can live with screwing up their own communication techology, barring enterprise, control speech by religious officials and teaching creationism "as the only science" in schools.

Thank you.

>This kind of bullsh-t will have a hard time happening in Beijing because of all the technocrate up there.  It will hurt the eyes of our engineer-turn-premier.

No, it's simply because that place is secular and people cares.

[ 本帖最後由 Nomad 於 2008-4-16 13:42 編輯 ]

Nomad

>Is the suffering caused by Qing?  Or the business that flow into the country?

You really want to make a case against the historical facts of opium, missioners robbing the locals and foreign colonisers act with no threat from law? Or that they're all but Qing's fault - a huge, huge slip of responsibility? (You might as well make a case to say it's the fault of the Jews to get Halocausted as they pissed the Germans.)
I mean, seriously?

>Why is it that when HK is taken over by the British, the CHINESE flouish as much as the Bristish?

That is VERY late after it happened. Also, that "the CHINESE flouish as much as the Bristish" is by itself an overstatement. Again, look at the political rights.

>Just because both side is Chinese, does not mean they will deal fairly.  Where do you think those 'fake' baby food, 'fake' soy sauce, 'fake' beef come from?

Nope it doesn't. However, at the very least it is not as bad as colonialism - again, does the African slaves gain a lot? No.

>You know technology can flow quite freely within a country but not so freely between country (even between China and HK)  Pick for example, Any Lau (HK) almost get jail for learning a XiChuan arts techique.

Yes but most of HK's lack of flow is rather due to HK's closure towards mainland academia.
"The evil atheist" is still a prominent thinking in HK academia, which as a developed society exhibits the world distinction of having the religious right - rather than the liberals - controlling the academia. This is the only reason why the general public in HK will never be scientific literate.

>How do you plan to conduct a reserch when you cannot get a hand on your research subject?  I think you over romantize the researching field.  Their are a lot of 'footies' in the field doing work to support the dudes in the city,

When was the last time you actually look at the research sector? I mean, seriously.

NO. A lot of basic science research comes from garage made experiment kits. I mean, seriously, go to the lab and you'll realize. Most of the equipment were by no means requires "expansive huge piece of land bla bla bla". Others welcome colaboration from all parties.

For example, ITER in Europe was never done by France alone, nor EU alone. A lot of design, modelling and data analysis comes from United States - the big plasma physics schools (MIT, Princeton, U Michigan, U Wisconsin...). With the light and needs of science, you can see the most unimaginable scenary of "the evil atheist communist China" actually joinning European and American scientists to set a foot into the project.

Even something as big as a fusion tokamak research can easily fit into a university's basement.

>HK commerce school is top ranking in the WORLD.  You cannot expect a commerce student to be well verse in science, just as you can't expect a science student to be well verse in commerce.

Who the hell do you think populates the top of the financial sector? Financialists? Give me a break.

And virtually all the top mathematicians they hired are by no means educated locally. Says something?

[ 本帖最後由 Nomad 於 2008-4-16 14:05 編輯 ]

Nomad

>If your family member is dead in the war, how is that still a war of natural resources?
How is the government going to escape the scandal when they have LOST they rightful territory (they believe) AND life of its citizen, miltary AND civilian (in thousands)?

>They will be pushed into using extreme measure just as they have in WWII.

After some one thousand soldiers got killed and another two millions Iraqis got killed, Bush happily get up onto the stage claiming that God told him to rule America (Just only because those 60% - or 51% people were that religious). And they still made it to lie to themselves that it's an oil war when oil price went up and missionaries flushed into iraq from all over America (except MA, maybe).

period.

It's all too easy to escape all those scandals with religion in hand - all, too easy.

>Actually no.

>If two country trade, the possible production maximum raise on both side.  THe greater the trade, the higher the max.  Technology also raise the max every day (to infinity in long run)

Simple natural resource limit: Fossil fuels, amount of jungle you can chop down, water resource ... (list goes on)

>In economic/science, you consider the alternative.

>IF they do not send, there will be 0 return.  They will have to reinvent the wheel at home.
>If they do, even if only 1 in a 100 return, they still have one.

Yes, but that doesn't mean you should go consider unrestricted release of bullshit.

>Labour is very cheap in China anyway. The hundred people that is sent is only small change to China.

Labours are very cheap. Air tickets and education fees are not.
In fact, it's better educate some over the others if you do know that that's what they'll do.

------------------------------------------------------------------

As this point I must say I should apologize about the tone - I'm "compassionate" about the point I'm trying to make, that's all (WTF?). Hope we're still friends after this is over (WTF?XD)

Nomad

>Sorry, you do not seems to understand that you do not need a product to earn a buck.

>US earn their buck by service, so is HK, so is most of the richest countries today.

US earned their bucks by service before because they actually sell technological DESIGNS around the world ... well, until the church took over and screwed up everything...

>You do not need to produce anything to sell because HK is a marketplace for both product and ideas.  A 'hui' as in 'Tai Po Hui' in traditional Chinese sense, and the village consider to be a 'hui' typically has very good transportation but not much production.

Just how many people can you feed with finance?

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-16 08:59 發表
The size of UK arm force in total: around 429k people (including Territorial Army)
Regular army : 100k

Compare:
War with UN/South Korea in Korea (tie) Chinese lost anywhere from 152k to 422k life.  
...

Grrr ... just realize I got caught again.

I mean, after the vietnam war? (only after which Teng had secured his power)

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-16 19:39 發表
"Simple natural resource limit: Fossil fuels, amount of jungle you can chop down, water resource ... (list goes on)"

Fossil fuel:  
Replace part of it by solar power, hydro power, biomass power
Bette ...

That is if the other party ever cared.

Historically speaking, none did.

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-16 19:59 發表
Japan also sign unequal treaty when they first met the missionary/army.  Yet they are able to rebound and kick Russian butt not long after.

Whereas before the sign those treaty and open the border, t ...

That's because they adapted the best strategy to survive at that time: buy their technology, reproduce them and kill the missionary.

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-16 20:33 發表
Hk has free press too.  If you wish to critisize Christian, you will not be arrested.

However, if done so outside of this forum, I might as well get killed, and the murderer facing "the utter punishment" of 200 hours of social service.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-16 20:33 發表
But if you want to be obscene...  well, China also ban obscene materials too.  It is a cultural thing.

China does not have an effectively "religion board" to do that.

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-16 19:43 發表
You may notice a lot of great city is at the finance hub of the region.  For example, Guangzhou of Guangdong region.  For example, Shanghai of southern China.  For example Vienna of Italy.  For example, Hamburg/Frankfurt of Germany.  Mumbai/Bombay of India.

And you missed out the fact that all of them are also industrial hubs of the region, historically
And most if not all of them were also academic centers.

You can't have one without some of the other two.
Again, think New York. If you hate the Yorkers, think even Frankfurt.
Oh, Chicago too! And Los Angeles!
They're all financial hubs, and won't have been half as much a financial hub for long without all the tech they had.

[ 本帖最後由 Nomad 於 2008-4-17 02:53 編輯 ]

Nomad

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-17 08:57 發表
Obscene material IS censored in China.  It has a board to do that (religion or not).  You will not find Adult Video playing at night like what people have in US.  

It has a board to do that. And that board was never a tool of the church that would ban arbitrary article like the same board in HK.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-17 08:57 發表
You want a bet?  I critisize Christian openly in a restaurant in HK, nothing happen.

Don't be paranoid.

Now try print that on the shirt you sell.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-17 08:57 發表
US is lobbying China to protect its environment for example.  None did?
As prices goes up, the market force made eople do it, and it HAS happened before.

US is lobbying China to protect its environment not by selling environmental friendly technology (except Clinton)
But by restricting China from using energy.
It's not a environmental move but a political exploit to disrupt the economical growth.
When did they cared about Indonnesia and Africa?

And your foreign country's resources will never be a price problem for the locals unless the other country restrict it.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-17 08:57 發表
You can't buy UKs boat without a few pounds in the pocket. You do not get a few pounds in the pocket until you trade.

Did Japan stop the trading after they defeated Russia and close up to  cacoon again?  Hell NO!

Though they must have traded selectively, or, at least, on the condition of getting what they need.
In fact, the fun part is, that after Japan arises, they in turn learnt from the Europeans to destroy the other country's economy and defense, then start talking about "free trade".

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-17 08:57 發表
While trade may lead the con-artist in, trade do not neccessary means foreign con-artist will flood the market.

Though, it does means so if one side limits their own export to such.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-17 08:57 發表
People will make choice.  Those who need a heaven will pick their favorite artist (political or religion).

And uneducated people are always stupid. Take a look at how many people were literate back then.

原帖由 dye 於 2008-4-17 08:57 發表
When is the last time you heard people refusing to open door for their guest because they are afraid that the wolves will come in?

What if you "guest" hides a pack of wolves behind him?

If my "guest" carries a gun, I'll certainly keep the door shut. You're welcome to do the otherwise