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[數據資料] 基督教涉嫌的二次創作 / 抄襲

回覆 120# 沙文


    稍後看看,但這位作家在24樓已受盡批評了。
有嘞, 係亡靈書嘅一部份...您食飽飯慢慢研究啦
沙文 發表於 2016/1/26 01:55



    第130章找不到,其他亦未見,煩請具體指引。
我臘完都係無。
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回覆  抽刀斷水

我覺得您嘅approach相當費工夫。
沙文 發表於 2016/1/27 16:28



    都係既,但我都覺得幾有價值。

BTW,版權條例仲未三讀通過,但呢個post已由大陸copy左再copy返去香港了。我唔係計較同介意,只係可惜的是,他們製了圖後,我之後的修改就再沒有update了,而其他神祇的比較亦沒有再copy。
http://club.kdnet.net/dispbbs.as ... page=1&1=1#11377281
http://www.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=25420729
以下是以生動角度說明聖經也是二次創作(聖經copy自己)(已是2012年貼出的了):
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我都無想再找virgin mother,我覺得這個涵義並不限止於「從未有過性行為」,而是「非經人類性交的神聖受孕」,那可能是以前的人重視女性是否貞潔,破處即代表污穢,不過我還是想找horus = sower of seed。

我突然想到,以前這些神祇這麼多血統問題,又收購又合併,這就造就一神教的冒起,除了免除這些血統和收購合併問題之外,當別神想抄襲它時,它就以「除我以外不可有別的神」的理由,指出其他抄襲者都是假的,抄也無用,同時還可在抄襲完別神後「用完即棄」,再反指被抄襲的神也是假神,賊喊捉賊,真是一舉N得了。
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回覆 135# beebeechan


    抄野又驚比人話佢抄,咁咪抄唔足features囉。
回覆 137# beebeechan


    嗯,那出現的巧合,一定就是神蹟了。
回覆 140# 沙文


    陳版友講野不嬲都無根據既,我已經習慣了。

有人話virgin即parthenos,又話係maiden,一時又話要immaculate conception,定義如此模糊沒有統一,傾黎都係牛頭唔搭馬咀、一中各表既姐。

See: http://freethoughtnation.com/isis-is-a-virgin-mother/
這段解釋得很清楚,在此全文引述:

THE SEPTUAGINT AND THE "VIRGIN-BIRTH" FRAUD


     The most colossal of the blunders of the Septuagint
translators, supplemented by the most insidious, persistent and
purposeful falsification of text, is instanced in the false
translation of the notoriously false pretended "prophecy" of Isaiah
vii, 14, -- frauds which have had the most disastrous and fatal
consequences for Christianity, and to humanity under its blight;
the present exposure of which should instanter destroy the false
Faith built on these frauds.


     The Greek priest who forged the "Gospel according to St.
Matthew," having before him the false Septuagint translation of
Isaiah, fables the Jewish Mary yielding to the embraces of the
Angel Gabriel to engender Jesus, and backs it up by appeal to the
Septuagint translation of Isaiah vii, 14:


     "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth
a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel." (Matt. i, 23.)


     Isaiah's original Hebrew, with the mistranslated words
underscored, reads: "Hinneh ha-almah harah ve-yeldeth ben ve-karath
shem-o immanuel"; -- which, falsely translated by the false pen of
the pious translators, runs thus in the English: "Behold, a virgin
shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"
(Isa. vii, 14.) The Hebrew words ha-almah mean simply the young
woman; and harah is the Hebrew past or perfect tense, "conceived,"
which in Hebrew, as in English, represents past and completed
action. Honestly translated, the verse reads: "Behold, the young
woman has conceived -- [is with child) -- and beareth a son and
calleth his name Immanuel."


     Almah means simply a young woman, of marriageable age, whether
married or not, or a virgin or not; in a broad general sense
exactly like girl or maid in English, when we say shop-girl,
parlor-maid, bar-maid, without reference to or vouching for her
technical virginity, which, in Hebrew, is always expressed by the
word bethulah. But in the Septuagint translation into Greek, the
Hebrew almah was erroneously rendered into the Greek parthenos,
virgin, with the definite article 'ha' in Hebrew, and e in Greek,
(the), rendered into the indefinite "a" by later falsifying
translators. (See Is It God's Word? pp. 277-279; EB. ii, 2162; New
Commentary on the Holy Scripture, Pt. I, p. 439.) And St. Jerome
falsely used the Latin word virgo.


     "As early as the second century B.C.," says the distinguished
Hebrew scholar and critic, Salomon Reinach, "the Jews perceived the
error and pointed it out to the Greeks; but the Church knowingly
persisted in the false reading, and for over fifteen centuries she
has clung to her error." (Orpheus, p, 197.) The truth of this
accusation of conscious persistence in known error through the
centuries is proved by confession of St. Jerome, who made the
celebrated Vulgate translation from the Hebrew into Latin, and
intentionally "clung to the error," though Jerome well knew that it
was an error and false; and thus he perpetuated through fifteen
hundred years the myth of the "prophetic virgin birth" of Jesus
called Christ.


     Being criticized by many for this falsification, St. Jerome
thus replies to one of his critics, Juvianus: "I know that the Jews
are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the
word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak
truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or
a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah"! (Jerome, Adv. Javianum I, 32;
N&PNF, vi, 370.) So insistent was the criticism, that he was driven
to write a book on the subject, in which he makes a very notable
confession of the inherent incredibility of the Holy Ghost
paternity-story "For who at that time would have believed the
Virgin's word that she had conceived of the Holy Ghost, and that
the angel Gabriel had come and announced the purpose of God? and
would not all have given their opinion against her as an
adulteress, like Susanna? For at the present day, now that the
whole world has embraced the faith, the Jews argue, that when
Isaiah says, 'Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,' the
Hebrew the Hebrew word denotes a young woman, not a virgin, that is
to say, the word is ALMAH, not BETHULAH"! (Jerome, The Perpetual
Virginity of Blessed Mary, N&PNF, vi, 336.)


     So the Greek Father or priest who forged the false "virgin-
birth" interpolation into the manuscript of "Matthew," drags in
maybe ignorantly the false Septuagint translation of Isaiah vii,
14, which the Latin Father St. Jerome purposely perpetuated as a
pious "lie to the glory of God." The Catholic and King James
Versions purposely retain this false translation; the Revised
Version keeps it in, but with a gesture of honesty, which is itself
a fraud, sticks into the margin in fine type, after the words "a
virgin" and "shall conceive," the words, "Or, the maiden is with
child and beareth," -- which not one in thousands would ever see or
understand the significance of. So it is not some indefinite "a
virgin" who 750 years in the future "shall conceive" and "shall
bear" a son whose name she "shall call" Immanuel, Jesus; but it was
some known and definite young female, married or un-married -- but
not a "virgin" -- who had already conceived and was already
pregnant, and who beareth a son and calleth his name Immanuel, ...
who should be the "sign" which "my lord" should give to Ahaz of the
truth of Isaiah's false prophecy regarding the pending war with
Israel and Syria, as related in Isaiah vii, and of which the total
falsity is proven in 2 Chronicles xxviii, as all may read.


     Although Papal Infallibility has declared that "it will never
be lawful to grant ... that the sacred writers could have made a
mistake" (Leo XIII, Eneyc. Provid. Deus; CE. ii, 543), yet, the
fraud being notorious and exposed to the scorn of the world, and
being driven by force of modern criticism, CE. definitely and
positively -- though with the usual clerical soft-soaping,
confesses this age-long clerical fraud and falsification of Holy
Writ, and relegates it to the junk-heap of discredited -- but not
discarded -- dogmatic myth:


     "Modern theology does not grant that Isaiah vii, 14, contains
a real prophecy fulfilled in the virgin birth of Christ; it must
maintain, therefore, that St. Matthew misunderstood the passage
when he said: 'Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled
which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall
be with child, and bring forth a son, etc."! (CE. xv, 451.)


     Thus is apparent, and confessed, the dishonesty of "Matthew"
and of the Church of Christ in perverting this idle, false and
falsified text of Isaiah into a "prophecy of the virgin birth of
Jesus Christ," and in persisting in retaining this falsity in their
dishonest Bibles as the basis of their own bogus theology unto this
day of the Twentieth Century. The Church, full knowing its falsity,
yet, clings to this precious lie of Virgin Birth and all the
concatenated consequences. Thus it declares its own condemnation as
false. Some other viciously false translations of sacred Scripture
will be duly noticed in their place.


     As Thomas Jefferson prophetically wrote, -- as is being
verified:


     "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by
the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be
classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of
Jupiter"!

-- From Joseph Wheless, FORGERY IN CHRISTIANITY, P.67-69
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首先, 未講此文的內容。
作者 Joseph Wheless 只是一個律師,業餘寫下宗教話題的書(或為興趣, 或 ...
beebeechan 發表於 2016/2/2 00:47


    如果任何有關研究都要先看作者背景,恐怕所有非教徒研究者都沒有相關神學訓練背景,他們大都要以兼職形式作研究,說穿了就是都缺乏信徒的供給,如果都因此而disqualified,剩下的只唯有親基督教的研究者了,這招真可使基督教立於不敗之地。

  作者身為律師,亦是其職業所致,對文本、引述言論出處皆十分仔細精確,如果你有仔細觀看內容就知道。
其實不需要去懂希伯來文, 希臘文, 用下一般常理便知經文要強調馬利亞處女生子.

以撒意亞先知被亞哈斯王K ...
beebeechan 發表於 2016/2/2 00:56


馬利亞處不處,這些算是你們基督宗教的家事,不過從下文可知陳版友屬「保守基督徒」:

    Conservative Christians believe that the virgin birth of Jesus is predicted in Isaiah 7:14. In 1952 when the Revised Standard Version translators rendered almah as young woman, it immediately became a center of controversy. Conservative Christians accused the translators of tampering with the Christian Bible. The RSV quickly replaced the KJV in many churches across America, but fundamentalist American Christians were outraged: nowhere in the Old Testament, they argued, was an almah anything other than a young unmarried girl; moreover, the Greek translators of Isaiah had shown by the word parthenos that they believed Isaiah to predict a virgin birth for the coming Messiah, and the Gospel of Matthew had endorsed their choice by quoting the Greek. Isaiah 7:14 became a litmus test among conservatives for the acceptability of new translations.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_7:14
出名作者 Bart Ehrmam就是聖經文本考勘學者,他本人已不是教會中人,持無神論立場來說經文纂改問題。 ...
beebeechan 發表於 2016/2/2 01:40



    這是由於現代反基漸多,出書有market,夠拿來糊口,你要找Joseph Wheless所屬的年代才公道。
維基引述此書,請問又有何不妥?

Rhodes, Ron (2009). The Complete Guide to Bible Translations. Harvest House Publishers. ISBN 978-0736931366, p. 80-82.
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那你這帖談人的家事作甚麼?
八卦了!
beebeechan 發表於 2016/2/2 01:45



    本來都不想再查,但沙文激勵我、叫我不要放棄嘛。
你講得對,
要糊口,要有 market ,便要講些市埸喜歡的話題囉。
市埸上鐘意聽乜咪講乜囉。
人在江湖,身 ...
beebeechan 發表於 2016/2/2 04:20



    係囉,所以唔可以怪Joseph係業餘既。
錯誤之(三)
你引文中 Isaiah 那句"original Hebrew"

一般人以為希伯來文寫的經卷便是古遠, 是更接 ...
beebeechan 發表於 2016/2/2 03:48



    請問你這堆東西從哪位/哪些聖經學者抄出來的?不妨說出來,讓大家先分析作者的背景吧。
你網上摷料咁勁, 也都俾你挖出黎
呢d 查考功夫, 唔會係你能力範圍外的事
對那些動漫小朋友, 就唔敢講勒 ...
beebeechan 發表於 2016/2/2 10:48



    我都知你好驚貼出出處既,但你死都唔貼出處,只能當成是閣下自說自話的見解了,參考價值成疑。
教徒即是教徒,風格一致。

他們提出上帝存在,卻總叫非教徒去否證;引述東西不附來源,就叫人自己找,就是學不懂burden of proof。
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教徒mode on:呵呵,否證不到上帝存在,即是上帝存在啦,簡直無瑕可擊。
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